ECT God’s grace, plus the believer’s part: enduring faith, works, obedience!

ZacharyB

Active member
Saving faith results in obedience!

Matthew 19:
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him,
“Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
Mark 10:
17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him,
“Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”
18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’
‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”
Luke 18:
18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying,
“Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’
‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”

There are many more NT verses which say obedience is required to obtain eternal life.


Saving faith results in works!

The Parable of the Talents -- Matthew 25:14-30
5 talents produced 5 more -- “good and faithful servant”
2 talents produced 2 more -- “good and faithful servant”
1 talent produced 0 more -- “wicked and lazy servant”, “unprofitable servant” …
“cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Somehow, this just doesn’t sound like heaven to me!
“Christ gives different gifts to different people according to their ability … But whatever gifts He gives,
He wants us to use them … Christ does not expect everyone to return the same amount to Him (Mk 4:20).
But He does expect that we return to Him all that we can. Especially, He expects from us our love,
our faith, our obedience … The wicked and lazy servant in the end did not preserve his talent; he lost it.
If we do not use our spiritual and material blessings in God’s service, they will be taken away from us.
If we grieve the Holy Spirit, He will depart from us … The punishment for a servant who misuses a gift
of God is very severe. When we do not use God’s gift in His service, we cheat God, we oppose God.
Therefore, He will oppose us.”
(Dr. Thomas Holt (a Spirit-filled missionary), The Applied New Testament Commentary, 1996)


The Parable of the Minas -- Luke 19:12-27
10 minas produced 10 more -- “good servant”
10 minas produced 5 more -- “good servant”
1 mina produced 0 more -- “wicked servant” …
“bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them,
and slay them before me.”

Somehow, this just doesn’t sound like heaven to me!
“The parable of the ten minas (Lk 19:12-27) is very similar to this parable of the talents … the meaning of
(the 2 parables) is the same … we all must use the gifts of God as diligently as we can, and that God will
reward each of us according to our work and faithfulness … Then at the end of the parable, the king had
those enemies put to death (Lk 19:27) … Let us not be among those who oppose the true King, Christ,
the King of Kings. If we reject His gifts, if we refuse to serve Him, we shall bring upon ourselves
eternal condemnation.”
(Dr. Thomas Holt (a Spirit-filled missionary), The Applied New Testament Commentary, 1996)


Believers today who have been following false teachers …
are like the Hebrews of Jesus’ time who were following the Pharisees!
IMO, it is a case of not only the blind following the blind, but also
often the deliberate and selfish choice to place themselves over their sheep.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
To ZachB:
"There are many more NT verses which say obedience is required to obtain eternal life."

That's because the soul is won, or wooed, or compelled. It is not because there are "Christian laws" that can be kept that can obligate God. It is a bit like a marriage. There are no unhappy "wives" forced to stay married. If they don't appreciate what the "husband" has done and provided, they won't respond willingly and happily, which is no good for anyone involved. We are the bride of Christ, not the slave. There is probably nothing in history that put marriage on the proper ground like that.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
ZacharyB preaching a time past and ages to come message from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the but now=powerless
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Saving faith results in obedience!

Matthew 19:
16 Now behold, one came and said to Him,
“Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’
‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’
19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
Mark 10:
17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him,
“Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”
18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’
‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”
Luke 18:
18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying,
“Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’
‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”

There are many more NT verses which say obedience is required to obtain eternal life.


Saving faith results in works!

The Parable of the Talents -- Matthew 25:14-30
5 talents produced 5 more -- “good and faithful servant”
2 talents produced 2 more -- “good and faithful servant”
1 talent produced 0 more -- “wicked and lazy servant”, “unprofitable servant” …
“cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Somehow, this just doesn’t sound like heaven to me!
“Christ gives different gifts to different people according to their ability … But whatever gifts He gives,
He wants us to use them … Christ does not expect everyone to return the same amount to Him (Mk 4:20).
But He does expect that we return to Him all that we can. Especially, He expects from us our love,
our faith, our obedience … The wicked and lazy servant in the end did not preserve his talent; he lost it.
If we do not use our spiritual and material blessings in God’s service, they will be taken away from us.
If we grieve the Holy Spirit, He will depart from us … The punishment for a servant who misuses a gift
of God is very severe. When we do not use God’s gift in His service, we cheat God, we oppose God.
Therefore, He will oppose us.”
(Dr. Thomas Holt (a Spirit-filled missionary), The Applied New Testament Commentary, 1996)


The Parable of the Minas -- Luke 19:12-27
10 minas produced 10 more -- “good servant”
10 minas produced 5 more -- “good servant”
1 mina produced 0 more -- “wicked servant” …
“bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them,
and slay them before me.”

Somehow, this just doesn’t sound like heaven to me!
“The parable of the ten minas (Lk 19:12-27) is very similar to this parable of the talents … the meaning of
(the 2 parables) is the same … we all must use the gifts of God as diligently as we can, and that God will
reward each of us according to our work and faithfulness … Then at the end of the parable, the king had
those enemies put to death (Lk 19:27) … Let us not be among those who oppose the true King, Christ,
the King of Kings. If we reject His gifts, if we refuse to serve Him, we shall bring upon ourselves
eternal condemnation.”
(Dr. Thomas Holt (a Spirit-filled missionary), The Applied New Testament Commentary, 1996)


Believers today who have been following false teachers …
are like the Hebrews of Jesus’ time who were following the Pharisees!
IMO, it is a case of not only the blind following the blind, but also
often the deliberate and selfish choice to place themselves over their sheep.
This is Salvation by works, by what a person does!
 

musterion

Well-known member
From the other forum he spammed with this...

Yes, IMO most believers today just do not understand that ...when we sin, true sincere repentance causes the precious blood of Jesus to cover over our sin! Ergo ... no need to despair, give up, and etc. ... unto eternal death.

Confessional salvation.

It should be quite obvious that ...
the truly saved born-again believer can choose
to begin living the sinning lifestyle AGAIN ...
after a period of living a "faithful" Christian lifestyle.

Some of these are actually "the elect" of God.
And this is the REASON for all of the many WARNINGS in the NT.
I.E. To ensure that these most-precious elect ones stay in line!
Because, the elect obviously will respond to the Holy Spirit
and to the Scriptural warnings!
This is simply WHY they are the elect,
and why the tares in the kingdom are NOT part of the elect.
The look-alike tares will be separated and thrown into hell,
and later into the lake of fire (along with the unbelievers).
Both of these types are in unbelief (according to God).

Another one of the spirit that says, "Thanks, Jesus, but I'll take it from here."

If you want to see the link for yourself, it's in the woodshed.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
From the other forum he spammed with this...



Confessional salvation.



Another one of the spirit that says, "Thanks, Jesus, but I'll take it from here."

If you want to see the link for yourself, it's in the woodshed.



A person must work out their salvation with awe and trembling. I don't see where the paragraph you quoted is a matter of 'thanks...but...' Instead, it is 'thanks...and I will...'
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
We have to be careful about the expression 'saving faith.' It makes it sound meritorious, which is not. The children of Israel were told to look to the serpent on the stick to be saved from the disease. He didn't say just 'look to the sky [to nothing in particular]' but to an object that illustrated God's victory over evil; to believe that God would be victorious (or that he was, and was in the past, Gen 3).
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
The distinction is subtle, but I see him saying that Christ alone justifies us, yet God never justifies anyone who does not think it is needed. We must remain humble and needy to the day we die. This is how we do what Col 1 and Hebrews is saying about believing to the end.

"the work of God is to believe on Him whom He sent." Jn 6
 

Cross Reference

New member
The distinction is subtle, but I see him saying that Christ alone justifies us, yet God never justifies anyone who does not think it is needed. We must remain humble and needy to the day we die. This is how we do what Col 1 and Hebrews is saying about believing to the end.

"the work of God is to believe on Him whom He sent." Jn 6

. . . And, he that endures to the end shall be saved.
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
The distinction is subtle, but I see him saying that Christ alone justifies us, yet God never justifies anyone who does not think it is needed. We must remain humble and needy to the day we die. This is how we do what Col 1 and Hebrews is saying about believing to the end.

"the work of God is to believe on Him whom He sent." Jn 6

It's in the title that ZB believes works are necessary for salvation.

"God’s grace, plus the believer’s part: enduring faith, works, obedience!"
 

HisServant

New member
Obedience to the Holy Spirit only. Not obedience to some pastor, denomination or school of theology's random interpretation of scripture.
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Zachary believes in working FOR his salvation by cooperating with Christ
and enduring unto the end, else he'll be lost.
Of course I believe this ... because it is what the NT teaches!
If you wish, I'd be happy to send you one.
But then perhaps you can't read.

Others, please note (once again):
John 3:16, etc. are hooks to catch the little fishes,
and then the Holy Spirit begins to teach dem what's involved.

Jesus says to FOIST consider the cost of following Him before bothering to continue on.
I.E. If one doesn't want to pay da price, just forget the whole deal.

"What price?", say the spiritual idiots in today's Laodicean (Rev 3) choiches.
Answer: the price explained in the NT.
 

ZacharyB

Active member
Obedience to the Holy Spirit only. Not obedience to some pastor,
denomination or school of theology's random interpretation of scripture.
Please ... it is always obedience to the Holy Spirit and the Holy Scriptures.

And please do not forget ...
Whenever, wherever, etc. you have One, you always have all Three.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Can you not read?

Zachary believes in working FOR his salvation by cooperating with Christ and enduring unto the end, else he'll be lost.

Apparently you can't. "Works", for the fullness of salvation can't even begin until one is saved. Need I repeat that for?

"Works", for the fullness of salvation can't even begin until one is saved. So, what is the Fullness of salvation? Here:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." John 17:3 (KJV)

No work in that, you say? No introspection going on? No crucifying the flesh; dying to self?
 

HisServant

New member
Please ... it is always obedience to the Holy Spirit and the Holy Scriptures.

And please do not forget ...
Whenever, wherever, etc. you have One, you always have all Three.

Nope... would you let someones interpretation (even your own) trump the leading of the Holy Spirit?

One has to rule....

I'm 55 years old, and have come to the realization that pastors and so called teachers, at the end of the day, have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to obedience... no clue at all.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Nope... would you let someones interpretation (even your own) trump the leading of the Holy Spirit?

One has to rule....

I'm 55 years old, and have come to the realization that pastors and so called teachers, at the end of the day, have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to obedience... no clue at all.

All pastors and "so-called" teachers don't know? And you do? I am almost 80 and I know you don't.
 

HisServant

New member
All pastors and "so-called" teachers don't know? And you do? I am almost 80 and I know you don't.

Never said I did, but they sure don't.

Especially when most make their living in opposition to Paul recommendations.

How can you believe them when the very way they make their living is not in concert with scripture? If they cannot obey, I sure am not going to obey any interpretation they have to offer.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Never said I did, but they sure don't.

How do you know?

Especially when most make their living in opposition to Paul recommendations.

Most? How do you know?

How can you believe them when the very way they make their living is not in concert with scripture?[/quote}

How do you know?

If they cannot obey, I sure am not going to obey any interpretation they have to offer.

How do you know?
 
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