ECT glorydaz says that Romans is Written to Unbelievers

[oatmeal]

On another thread I said that the tenth chapter of the epistle to the Romans was written to believers.

In response, glorydaz said this:

"You SHALL BE SAVED" rules out your claim this is written to believers.​

Here is the verse which she was making reference:

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" (Ro.10:8-9).​

When we examine the "context" we can see that Paul was merely telling the believers what he preached to the unsaved:

"But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" (Ro.10:8-9).​

He is telling these believers what he preaches to the unsaved--"the word of faith which we preach." After all, this epistles is written to those who already believe, as witnessed by what Paul said about their faith:

"First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Ro.1:8).​

Not only that, after Paul explained what He preached to the unbelievers He then calls unbelievers "they" which he would not do if his words are being addressed to unbelievers:

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Ro.10:14).​

If this chapter was addressed to unbelievers then it would read:

"How then shall you call on him in whom you have not believed? and how shall you believe in him of whom you have not heard? and how shall you hear without a preacher?"​

That is not what Paul wrote so it is obvious that He was not addressing the unsaved.

And if the tenth chapter is addressed to unbelievers then the whole epistle is meant for unbelievers. Or else you would have to tear out the tenth chapter and give it to the unbelievers. So it cannot be denied that if glorydaz is correct then Romans is written to unbelievers even though only one chapter of that epistle applies to them.

However, none of what is said in the epistle to the Romans is addressed to unbelievers.

The entirety of scripture is written for the benefit of believers. However, unbelievers do not become believers without learning at least a little of what scripture teaches. (whether directly from scripture or indirectly)

Romans 10:9 Paul is communicating what it takes for the unsaved to become saved. This information is vital to the unbeliever if the unbeliever is to be saved.

However, the benefit and responsibility to the believer is manifold. It succinctly communicates what the believer should be wanting to communicate to the unbeliever so that the unbeliever can receive salvation, if he wants to.

Romans does contain passages that are directed to unsaved Judeans, Romans 9:1-4 tells us that Paul is writing about Judeans and their state.

Whereas, Paul switches to addressing the Gentiles in Romans 11:13

Neither Judeans nor Gentiles are part of the church of God until they do Romans 10:9-10 so as to receive salvation.

God's puts every person into one of three categories according to I Corinthians 10:32

The are either:

1. Judean

2. Gentile

3. Church of God

Only the church of God has done Romans 10:9-10, the Judeans and Gentiles are not part of the church of God until they do Romans 10:9-10

 

[StanJ]

You idiot, I was saying that on your behalf.
It figures; that picture of you looks like someone about to keel over from having just been struck by a two by four. All its needs is those cartoon birds flying around your fool head.

:loser:

Ignore ON.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

:loser:

Ignore ON.

Please place old GM on ignore, as well. To be honest, I'm
really not a fan of yours and I'm uninterested in any of
your opinions. No offence, I just don't care for anything
you have to say, newbie! I perceive you to be a trouble
maker more than anything. You know, like a "Troll."

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You idiot, I was saying that on your behalf.

It figures; that picture of you looks like someone about to keel over from having just been struck by a two by four. All its needs is those cartoon birds flying around your fool head.

This made me LOL BIG time!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You ought to know.

And, I'm SURE, you're certain.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I wouldn't worry about or even respond to those who claim to see Satan in others GT...after all consider that THEIR father is the father of lies.

So, you can see into the hearts of men? When I saw your chosen icon,
you didn't look like the kind of a guy that could even see through a
package of Twinkies?

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Sticks and stone GM

:loser:

They need to turn the oxygen level up a bit, in Canada?

 

[rougueone]

On another thread I said that the tenth chapter of the epistle to the Romans was written to believers.

In response, glorydaz said this:

"You SHALL BE SAVED" rules out your claim this is written to believers.​

Here is the verse which she was making reference:

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" (Ro.10:8-9).​

When we examine the "context" we can see that Paul was merely telling the believers what he preached to the unsaved:

"But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" (Ro.10:8-9).​

He is telling these believers what he preaches to the unsaved--"the word of faith which we preach." After all, this epistles is written to those who already believe, as witnessed by what Paul said about their faith:

"First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Ro.1:8).​

Not only that, after Paul explained what He preached to the unbelievers He then calls unbelievers "they" which he would not do if his words are being addressed to unbelievers:

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" (Ro.10:14).​

If this chapter was addressed to unbelievers then it would read:

"How then shall you call on him in whom you have not believed? and how shall you believe in him of whom you have not heard? and how shall you hear without a preacher?"​

That is not what Paul wrote so it is obvious that He was not addressing the unsaved.

And if the tenth chapter is addressed to unbelievers then the whole epistle is meant for unbelievers. Or else you would have to tear out the tenth chapter and give it to the unbelievers. So it cannot be denied that if glorydaz is correct then Romans is written to unbelievers even though only one chapter of that epistle applies to them.

However, none of what is said in the epistle to the Romans is addressed to unbelievers.

================

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"

Jerry,
I think you back peddled to far.

1.Paul is writing to fellow believer's. YES.
But PAUL is telling them, less a preacher , how can the UN-believer call on Jesus ?
Paul is telling them to step up, and preach.
Then Paul offer's them what he knew.
And was telling his friends first to PREACH.
Then instructing them to make it know, to UN-believer's that, ......
[ The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[[/U]e] (that is, the word of faith which we preach---Jesus)
Here it is JERRY
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.[/COLOR]
For the Scripture-Jesus says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”[f]

Not to difficult Jerry. Paul is revealing the truth in the absolute sense, that non-believers have to believe in their hearts first, then:
confess from their mouths, "Jesus is Lord"

And I, once being a non believer, and did ," confess with MY mouth, the Lord Jesus , and believed in my heart, that God has raised
Him from the dead, AND I WAS saved.


For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For
“[whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”[g][/B]

Yes, the ADDRESS, The introduction, is too the people to whom letter was going. They are believer's. But the message was how to convert non-believer's.

There is no other way this can go.
Glory Daz is correct.

It's really fairly simple .

Hope this helps Jerry.

 

[Arsenios]

================

Hope this helps Jerry.

Me too...

:thumb:

A.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes, the ADDRESS, The introduction, is too the people to whom letter was going. They are believer's. But the message was how to convert non-believer's.

There is no other way this can go. Glory Daz is correct.

glorydaz says the the epistle is addressed to both believers and unbelievers.

Do you believe that?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Romans does contain passages that are directed to unsaved Judeans, Romans 9:1-4 tells us that Paul is writing about Judeans and their state.

Paul is not addressing the unsaved Israelites in those verses but instead is merely speaking about them. There is a huge difference.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Man's only hope before the cross was obedience to the law (though no man could keep it perfectly). The Cross makes all the difference in the world.

If that is true then why did the Lord Jesus say this to a woman before He was crucified?:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

If before the Cross the only hope for the Jews who lived under the law was obedience to the law then why would the Lord Jesus say this to those Jews before the Cross?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

You have been shown this verse many times but you either ignore it or you just do not believe it.

"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim.3:7).​

 

[glorydaz]

glorydaz says the the epistle is addressed to both believers and unbelievers.

Do you believe that?

You started out claiming I was saying Romans (meaning the entire "epistle") was written to unbelievers, when, in fact, I was saying no such thing. My thread was about Romans 10.

Now you say I claimed the epistle was "addressed" to both believers and unbelievers. Of course you have given yourself permission to say parts of it are addressed to "every man", but that must be acceptable. :chuckle:

You can't get your facts right any better than God's UNtruth does. So, why don't you simply shut your big mouth until you can be honest enough to admit you LIED, and the title of this thread is a LIE (even though you attempted to clean it up by editing your first post)? You're really pathetic, Jerry, and being unable to admit you were wrong speaks volumes. :nono:

A LIE is an attempt to deceive. You continue doing that.​

 

[glorydaz]

If that is true then why did the Lord Jesus say this to a woman before He was crucified?:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

If before the Cross the only hope for the Jews who lived under the law was obedience to the law then why would the Lord Jesus say this to those Jews before the Cross?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

You have been shown this verse many times but you either ignore it or you just do not believe it.

"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim.3:7).​

Here you go again. I said "man's only hope". Stop twisting my words, stalker.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Now you say I claimed the epistle was "addressed" to both believers and unbelievers.

That is exactly what you said:

You only show your ignorance when you make the claim that everyone being addressed is a believer. "All that be in Rome". That means anyone who hears the letter being read.

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.​

From Post #173, page 12 on thee thread titled "The Gospel in Romans 10"

According to you I was in error when I made the claim that everyone being addressed is a believer. That can only mean that you think it was addressed to unbelievers as well. Then you accused my of lying:

So, why don't you simply shut your big mouth until you can be honest enough to admit you LIED

I did not lie and I presented my evidence that proves that I didn't lie.

A LIE is an attempt to deceive. You continue doing that.

I would not come out and call you a liar and that you attempted to deceive because you are in such a state of confusion that is monumental about what the Bible teaches that you cannot remember what you said in the past. You are a walking and talking contradiction.

Here you go again. I said "man's only hope". Stop twisting my words, stalker.

So did you mean that "man's only hope" to be saved was keeping the law but women had another option? If that is what you meant then you are more lost than I even imagined. Let us look at what you said again and my response:

Man's only hope before the cross was obedience to the law (though no man could keep it perfectly). The Cross makes all the difference in the world.

If that is true then why did the Lord Jesus say this to a woman before He was crucified?:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).

If before the Cross the only hope for the Jews who lived under the law was obedience to the law then why would the Lord Jesus say this to those Jews before the Cross?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

You have been shown this verse many times but you either ignore it or you just do not believe it.

"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Tim.3:7).​

 

[glorydaz]

You started out claiming I was saying Romans (meaning the entire "epistle") was written to unbelievers, when, in fact, I was saying no such thing. My thread was about Romans 10.

Now you say I claimed the epistle was "addressed" to both believers and unbelievers. Of course you have given yourself permission to say parts of it are addressed to "every man", but that must be acceptable. :chuckle:

That is exactly what you said:



According to you I was in error when I made the claim that everyone being addressed is a believer. That can only mean that you think it was addressed to unbelievers as well. Then you accused my of lying:

No, it means you don't think.

You did claim everyone being addressed was a believer, and then you claimed Romans 2 was addressing "every man". I suppose you call that covering all your bases.


The LIE was in saying I claimed Romans was written to unbelievers. It's the title of this thread YOU started. When I said Romans 10:9-10 was addressing unbelievers, you claimed it was addressing believers and was talking about when we receive our new glorified bodies. You said that, didn't you? Why do you keep trying to avoid admitting that?

Then I said portions of Romans 2, for instance, was written to unbelievers, and you said it was written to "every man". Are you saying "every man" is a believer? You are pretty slippery, Jerry, but even the great swaggering Jerry can't get away with that stuff.

Here's the text you claim is addressed to believers.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.​

I did not lie and I presented my evidence that proves that I didn't lie.

Yes, you did lie and you just keep doing it. Your little rabbit trails can't lead away from the title of this thread (which is a lie).

I would not come out and call you a liar and that you attempted to deceive because you are in such a state of confusion that is monumental about what the Bible teaches that you cannot remember what you said in the past. You are a walking and talking contradiction.

:mock: Jerry

So did you mean that "man's only hope" to be saved was keeping the law but women had another option? If that is what you meant then you are more lost than I even imagined. Let us look at what you said again and my response:

:mock: Jerry

If that is true then why did the Lord Jesus say this to a woman before He was crucified?:

Poor Jerry, he just can't keep from digging that hole deeper and deeper. :doh:

 

[rougueone]

glorydaz says the the epistle is addressed to both believers and unbelievers.

Do you believe that?

Can the words of God effect both ?

 

[StanJ]

glorydaz says the the epistle is addressed to both believers and unbelievers.
Do you believe that?

Yes I do, because it IS.

 

[StanJ]

e·quiv·o·ca·tion
iˌkwivəˈkāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: equivocation; plural noun: equivocations

1. the use of ambiguous language to conceal the truth or to avoid committing oneself; prevarication.
   
   
   
   

Here is a picture of one on this thread who does this ALL the time.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The LIE was in saying I claimed Romans was written to unbelievers.

Again, here is what you said:

Now you say I claimed the epistle was "addressed" to both believers and unbelievers.

Here is exactly what you said:

You only show your ignorance when you make the claim that everyone being addressed is a believer. "All that be in Rome". That means anyone who hears the letter being read.​

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

You say that I am ignorant for saying that the epistle was addressed only to believers. that can only mean that you believe that is addressed to both the believer and the unbeliever.

And then you say that it was addressed to "all that be in Rome" and that means anyone who hears the letter being read.

That can only mean that you are saying that the epistle is addressed to both believers and unbelievers.

And then you tell me that I can't think. But you prove that you cannot even understand what you said earlier, just as you are unable to understand what the Bible says.

Here you go again. I said "man's only hope". Stop twisting my words, stalker.

So did you mean that "man's only hope" to be saved was keeping the law but women had another option? If that is what you meant then you are more lost than I even imagined. Let us look at what you said again and my response:

Man's only hope before the cross was obedience to the law (though no man could keep it perfectly). The Cross makes all the difference in the world.

If that is true then why did the Lord Jesus say this to a woman before He was crucified?:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

If before the Cross the only hope for the Jews who lived under the law was obedience to the law then why would the Lord Jesus say this to those Jews before the Cross?:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

You have been shown this verse many times but you either ignore it or you just do not believe it.

You did not answer my questions. Instead, all you said was that I keep digging that hole deeper and deeper.

But you did not even attempt to answer my questions. I guess that you think you must say something in the hope that no one will notice that you had no answer.