Forgiving Others

[Melody]

Originally posted by BillyBob

You are right, let's just lay down our 'arms', open the borders and let the Muslims kill us all. Sound good to you????

You are not argueing with me, you are argueing with the scriptures, you don't like what Jesus said. Take it up with Him.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

You show me one apostle or christian in the scriptures that lifted up arms to save their own lives.

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Melody

You are not arguing with me, you are arguing with the scriptures, you don't like what Jesus said. Take it up with Him.

First of all, This is a little more serious than a dispute with a member of your community. Secondly, you see what submitting to the bad guys ultimately resulted in for Jesus. That was his destiny, not mine.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I don't fear them, I just want to kill them.

You show me one apostle or Christian in the scriptures that lifted up arms to save their own lives.

Hey, if you don't want to protect yourself and your family, that's your choice, but I can't think of anything less Christian.


Besides, martyrdom really isn't my cup of tea.

When this thing really gets bad, and it's going to, you may see things differently. If not, have a nice funeral. I would like to come and pay my respects to you, but I'll be too busy fighting Muslims, sorry.

 

[BillyBob]

Originally posted by Freak

BB, let's simply hate all the muslims and kill them all, right?

It's starting to look that way......

 

[BillyBob]

For the record, I do not hate any group of people based solely on their religious or philosophical persuasion. I also do not think that every Muslim is evil, nor do I think that every Muslim is a terrorist. However, I can't tell the good ones from the bad ones and the good ones don't seem to be doing much to help weed out the bad ones, so I am inclined to believe that many more of them are bad than I previously thought. That being the case, with all the violence directed towards Americans from Muslims, I am prepared to take a stand in the most militant fashion. Interpret that as you wish.


::This message was approved by BillyBob::

 

[Nineveh]

Originally posted by ebenz47037

Normally, I would agree with Knight and Poly on their position. "No. You should only forgive the repentent."

But, in a case, where you're anger is affecting your life, you need to forgive the person for your own sanity.

Does anger have to be one and the same with forgiveness?

I can think of instances in my life where I have been sinned against and the person has not asked for forginess (has not repented). I'm not angry at them, the emotion of anger does not influence my life even though they are unrepentant and I am unforgiving.

I would most certainly forgive them if asked, that is what I am called to do. However there would be no "emotional" release about it.

Is it fair to say, un/forgiveness doesn't have to include the aspect of anger at all and vise versa?

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by Greywolf

Is repentance necessarily the same as asking for forgiveness?

No. Asking forgiveness is merely that. Repentance is much more. It involves making an about-face, putting an end to and turning away from the sin.

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by Knight

What is so hard to understand about Jesus clear teaching on the matter?

“Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. - Luke 17:3

Originally posted by Knight

......and if he repents, forgive him. - Luke 17:3

Originally posted by Knight

Say what???

Originally posted by Knight

......and if he repents, forgive him. - Luke 17:3

I thought that's what you said!

:chuckle:

 

[Lucky]

Originally posted by Yorzhik

P.S. this might be an all-time-great thread.

When I start a thread, you know it'll be a good one!

 

[Lucky]

I've never understood the idea of having to forgive someone who does not want forgiveness. It just doesn't make sense. You cannot force someone to take the forgiveness you grant them anymore than you can force them to repent. You can tell them "I'm willing and waiting to grant you forgiveness, but you have to ask for it." Otherwise, if they don't want it, they are rejecting the forgiveness. Thus, the "forgiveness transaction" is incomplete and you haven't truly forgiven them, no matter how much you tried. But you are not to blame for them not wanting forgiveness. The guilt is on their hands, so to speak. After all, it was their offense!

 

[firechyld]

Am I the only person here you thinks that you forgive someone for your own sake, not theirs?

 

[Lucky]

Perhaps in those situations where there is a lot of hatred built up, the person you are really forgiving is yourself, not the person you hate. In other words, "forgiving them" is just a cheesy cover up for you repenting of (turning away from) your rage and hatred. That it is more of a need to be forgiven than a need to forgive.

 

[firechyld]

Hrmmm... not exactly how i see it.

I've been through a lot in my not-that-many years, and I've had a lot of nasty things done to me by others. But I deal, I forgive, and I move on. Holding onto a grudge is only going to damage me, not them.

 

[BillyBob]

I hate this topic.

Please forgive me.

:freak:

 

[SOTK]

:chuckle:

 

[Chileice]

Originally posted by firechyld

Hrmmm... not exactly how i see it.

I've been through a lot in my not-that-many years, and I've had a lot of nasty things done to me by others. But I deal, I forgive, and I move on. Holding onto a grudge is only going to damage me, not them.

Colossians 3 kind of clears it all up, I do believe.

Character of the Christian Life and Home

Originally posted by Paul
1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

The first question is for everyone is: are you a Christian? If you are, you shouldn't be focused on this life and all its troubles and all the offenses that could offend you. Billy-Bob, if you are Christ's you are already dead. If you really believe Christ saving your own physical life shouldn't matter so much. Not to say that life isn't important, but their are issues even bigger. I thank God for the thousands of Christians who died in the first centuries to show how much Christ loved, to spread Christianity, not by military might but by a willingness to suffer for the sake of Christ that His Kingdom might grow.

Originally posted by Paul
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

If you are a Christian, you shopuld be in a process of renewal. The sisn should be becoming less... not the sins of others, but rather your own sins. How can you put away anger, wrath and malice from your mouth if you don't forgive? One cannot forgive if they don't see themselves as forgiven. For that reason I have serioud doubts about the relation with Christ that someone has if they say it is somehow wrong to forgive. I do not believe they have experienced forgiveness. Because if we receive a full and complete forgiveness for our sins, we will want to forgive others of theirs. Paul says so as he continues:

Character of the New Man

Originally posted by Paul
12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. 14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. 15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

Longsuffering rather than a trigger finger. Bearing with one another. That means it won't be easy. Sometimes I will be bearing the burden of someone who will not repent or ask forgiveness. Yet, I, as the mature Christian am willing to bear that load for the sake of Christ. There can never be peace in the body if everyone is looking for grudges to hold onto. "As Christ forgave, so you also MUST do." It is not an optional phrase. You can try to rationalize it away... but at you own peril. Forgiveness is Christianity. it is the reason Jesus lived, died and rose again. If we do not offer the world forgiveness, we do not offer the world the message of Christ.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by BillyBob

I assume that is the wrong answer........

Not according to me!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by BillyBob

I will not pretend to know what Knight's intentions are, but it is natural to hate people who are intent on killing you. They certainly hate us!!!! If I let down my guard, I will become a victim.

:thumb:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by BillyBob
Freak, you are twisting my words.

If only I had a dime for every........

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by BillyBob
Hey, if you don't want to protect yourself and your family, that's your choice, but I can't think of anything less Christian.

BB.... you are impressing me on this thread... very nice!

Good work! :up:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Lucky

I've never understood the idea of having to forgive someone who does not want forgiveness. It just doesn't make sense. You cannot force someone to take the forgiveness you grant them anymore than you can force them to repent. You can tell them "I'm willing and waiting to grant you forgiveness, but you have to ask for it." Otherwise, if they don't want it, they are rejecting the forgiveness. Thus, the "forgiveness transaction" is incomplete and you haven't truly forgiven them, no matter how much you tried. But you are not to blame for them not wanting forgiveness. The guilt is on their hands, so to speak. After all, it was their offense!

:thumb:

Great post.

God doesn't force forgiveness on the unrepentant and He doesn't want us to either.