Oh, do you fear someone is trying to control you, Chrys?
Feminism
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Oh, do you fear someone is trying to control you, Chrys?
The 5 solas
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Yes, that mutual submission is mentioned once, and it is true.... but within the marriage relationship....there are many more verses
( some of which I posted already) which clearly state the wife is to submit to the husband, his authority, his headship.
There is nothing wrong with that. Submit is not a bad word. Jesus submitted to the Father. We submit to our bosses at work, that does not make us lesser beings. We submit to the government, we know they are not better than us lol.
I will say, it makes it much easier to submit when we have someone worthy to submit to. A godly Christian man for a husband, would be one.
Do you believe a woman is obligated to submit to someone who is not worthy of being submitted to?
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Man is commanded to be the rule over the wife. Adam was created as head of the woman.
This is not a bad thing, nor a punishment, but the good Law and Order of God reiterated for the protection and well-being of the woman.
The punishing curse imposed by God for their original sin, is death.
Both Adam and Eve received a death sentence for rebelling against God, but God gave them guidelines how to live their earthly lives, under this curse, in order to reproduce and eventually produce the promised Seed (Messiah).
The husband ruling over the wife is divine providence, not something to resist or reject.
Its true for all believers equally.
Why *some* men want to think they are better than Christ who submitted to us all and asks us to the same - they can be little rulers in place of God is beyond me.
Clearly there are some men who would deny that laying ones life down is ultimate submission, perhaps they cant handle that word being applied to them equally.
Nang
TOL Subscriber
How did Christ submit to you?
the feminists control the democratic party
the unions pay the bill
it is a marriage made in hell
and
they are in control
they have made it a war on women
and
the men are letting them get away with it
the unions pay the bill
it is a marriage made in hell
and
they are in control
they have made it a war on women
and
the men are letting them get away with it
This allows them to make excuses for anything they do or say to their wife. It is a catch all excuse for all behavior including adultery, drugs, physical abuse ...
Something I would expect from a dictator in a third world country ...
That's ... interesting. However will you cope?
I think some people dont know the real meaning of submit and why verse 21 of Ephesians 5 where it says mutual submission among believers is a mystery.
It means to serve, to help and to make yourself available.
Christ served all of mankind all the way to laying down His life for you, do some of you men think yourselves better than that?
It means to serve, to help and to make yourself available.
Christ served all of mankind all the way to laying down His life for you, do some of you men think yourselves better than that?
So don't ... and don't forget that you do not have the authority to cast your vote in elections. There are men who would not agree with your vote.
And that is one of the results of the fall, that men will seek to rule over women, instead of seeking God by their nature.
The 5 solas
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I believe that all of us are obligated to submit to those who are not worthy of it....government would be the perfect example. We are required to submit to our bosses, if we have one, even if he is a jerk ...positionally, we submit to others all the time.
What really is *worthy*?
A Christian woman, if married to an unbeliever is still to submit to her husband as much as he does not ask her to sin.
I think this is a beautiful passage, it speaks to the husbands and wives:
1 Peter 3 :1-7
3 Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct. 3 Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— 4 but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. 5 For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.
7 Likewise, husbands, live with your wives in an understanding way, showing honor to the woman as the weaker vessel, since they are heirs with you of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.
Selaphiel
Well-known member
I find it a bit interesting that so many seem to object to feminism in a way that say that it is a culturally contingent objection to sacred writings. A historical and social study of the period and culture surrounding the New Testament communities show that those texts are basically just reaffirming the gender patterns of that culture and age. Nor is the view on women consistent between the different writings of the Bible, not even just the New Testament.
They were surrounded by patriarchal structures. There is nothing wrong with, in fact it is commendable, to criticize many of those structures today. They are based upon views of women that are simply false (severely outdated hellenistic "biology"). That being said, I do not think that recognizing that men and women are in some areas different, but not in extreme ways. I have no issue with women ministers for example, they are just as good ministers as men are.
They were surrounded by patriarchal structures. There is nothing wrong with, in fact it is commendable, to criticize many of those structures today. They are based upon views of women that are simply false (severely outdated hellenistic "biology"). That being said, I do not think that recognizing that men and women are in some areas different, but not in extreme ways. I have no issue with women ministers for example, they are just as good ministers as men are.
That's fine. I do not. In personal relationships, someone who does not give respect does not deserve to be submitted to. Just the opposite, really.
The 5 solas
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Actually, the result of the fall was that God said:
Genesis 3:16b
"Your desire shall be for your husband,
and he shall rule over you.”
yes, not that she would try to usurp authority like is falsely claimed, it simply means that she will desire him above God and he will rule over her instead of being ruled by God. Mankind has born that out all through history, that woman will put up with all kinds of things because she desires a man, and he will "rule" her because of it, and neither will be seeking the authority of almighty God in it, but their own desires, that is not an "edict" but a statement of what has happened because of the fall, just like hard labor for him and pain in childbirth for her.
Now if you still wish to state that ruling over a wife is an edict from God in that verse, and insist on the usurp meaning about a woman, then you have to also believe that Gods edict is FOR woman to usurp that authority of a man... cant have it both ways.
The 5 solas
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Someone who does not give respect, does not merit respect...but we sometimes still have to submit to them, positionally.
There is also respect for the office vs respect for the person.
An example, even though I am Canadian....I do NOT respect Obama as a person due to is immoral stance on so many things, but I still would grant him the respect due, because of the office he holds. I hope that makes sense.
I need a
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Jesus Christ submitted Himself to the Father, and served him in perfect obedience, even unto death.
He came in the flesh to right the wrongs of men and the devil, but He did not submit in service to us, except in love as Mediator and High Priestto sacrificially and substitutionally work propitiation before the Father for the remission of the sins of those the Father gave Him to redeem.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is God-centered, not man-centered.
Triune God does all things for His good pleasure and glory, alone.
Soli deo Gloria!
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Not at all the correct interpretation . . .
See here.
I disagree. God created Adam to rule over Eve. This was a temporal providence from God to further the good order of His original creation (for procreation purposes).
Hard labor and childbirth pains result from spiritual death, and the subsequent rule of the flesh over mankind.
This makes no sense because you think the command (Genesis 3:16) was bad.
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