Fasting thread

Idolater

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This came out of the Lifting thread, @Jefferson mentioned he fasts weekly and he got me intrigued about it. I personally tie it together with lifting weights and fitness but plenty of people don't, many people fast for religious and spiritual reasons as well, so I thought I'd make a new thread just for fasting.


Jefferson got me trying different fasting routines, currently I just clocked 72 hours for the first time in like 10 years (96 hours is my longest ever).

Here's a dead thread on the subject.
Is fasting a part of your spiritual life? How often or how long have you fasted? How has it helped you grow in your relationship with God?
I'm looking forward to fasting on Fridays. My schedule won't currently allow it but the idea is in my head.
 

Idolater

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84 hours.

I didn't watch this whole thing through yet but it's unlikely to be vulgar, and from what I have watched he's promoting some of the common ideas commonly promoted by fasting enthusiasts.
 

Jefferson

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84 hours.

I didn't watch this whole thing through yet but it's unlikely to be vulgar, and from what I have watched he's promoting some of the common ideas commonly promoted by fasting enthusiasts.
Pradip's YouTube channel is one of 7 health related channels I subscribe to and watch religiously.
 

Jefferson

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84 hours.

I didn't watch this whole thing through yet but it's unlikely to be vulgar, and from what I have watched he's promoting some of the common ideas commonly promoted by fasting enthusiasts.
Are you familiar with Thomas DeLauer?

 

Idolater

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Are you familiar with Thomas DeLauer?

I watched part of a video of him. idk. I like Dr. Pradip better, so far anyway.

What are the top benefits of fasting in all your research?

From what I've seen, here are the top reasons for fasting periodically:

Insulin drops to basically nothing eventually, giving your body a break from it. Helps re-sensitize yourself to insulin if you've become insulin resistant.

Stem cells generate at some point.

Autophagy occurs eventually (thought it's unclear when this really begins, I saw one doctor say that it really only starts to occur after very long fasting).

Along with fat burning, which begins as soon as 16 or 24 hours in some people.

One thing I've heard multiple people say is that we do not currently have a medicine or drug which will do the things that fasting does. That's pretty compelling.
 

Jefferson

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What are the top benefits of fasting in all your research?
There's so many benefits but it's still a relatively new field and a lot of it is not settled science. I hear practitioners disagree with each other all the time on this subject.

One of the biggest proofs of the benefits of fasting is what our bodies do naturally when we come down with the flu. Our bodies take away our appetites and we wind up not eating, sometimes not for days. When our appetites come back, we're cured. It's like what you said above, we do not currently have a medicine or drug which can do the things fasting does.
 

Jefferson

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I watched part of a video of him. idk. I like Dr. Pradip better, so far anyway.
When it comes to the subject of fasting, my 2 favorites are Pradip and Jason Fung.

I learned 2 new things from DeLauer recently (if he's right).

1 - The amount of ketones doubles from a 16 hour fast to a 20 hour fast.

2 - Fat loss slows down after 24 hours of fasting.
 

Idolater

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When it comes to the subject of fasting, my 2 favorites are Pradip and Jason Fung.

I learned 2 new things from DeLauer recently (if he's right).

1 - The amount of ketones doubles from a 16 hour fast to a 20 hour fast.

2 - Fat loss slows down after 24 hours of fasting.
I watched Mr. Fung (thanks for the tip). He mentioned that the longest fast ever was like 380 days----I was shocked.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fasting/comments/dy76v4
Before this I heard Mr. Jamnadas mention something like an 80-day fast, so when I heard Fung mention this 380 days fast, I was stunned.
 

Idolater

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This past week I did three 36-hour fasts. I ate supper Saturday night, and fasted until Monday morning, ate supper Monday night, and then fasted until Wednesday morning, and then fasted against until Thursday supper.

One of the benefits fasting which I forgot about above, was that growth hormone increases during fasting.
 

Idolater

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'Working on a fast rn, tonight will be 72 hours. Nothing but water, black coffee, and my meds. I haven't had any salt yet on this one, that's new for me (usually I'm having a pickle or two), but so far no signs of diminished electrolytes (muscle cramps).

I'll have some salt water today if I need it (the semi-potassium variety). Maybe a pickle. I do love my pickles. :)

One thing I learned that is one of those, I-should-have-already-known-this kind of things, is that fasting is naturally catabolic. Anabolism is building, constructing, integrating. It's building proteins, tissues, including fat or adipose. When you don't eat, you don't build anything, you're instead deconstructing, dissembling, disintegrating, namely, during prolonged or extended fasting, fat. That's catabolism.

Metabolism is kind of the net of your catabolic and anabolic activity. When people say that a skinny person has a "fast metabolism," they mean that their catabolism outweighs their anabolism.

And anabolism (think "anabolic steroids") isn't just building muscle, but also fat. So when you see a fatty like me, it's not that I don't have anabolism, in fact I've done a lot of anabolism to build up my adipose /fat tissue.

Exercise is also of course catabolic, but when you're not fasting the first thing your body is breaking down is its stores of glycogen, which is stored in your muscles and liver, along with whatever blood sugar you already have. In prolonged or extended fasting, your glycogen stores lower down to like zero, so you're in "fat burning" during extended or prolonged fasting. If you exercise while fasting then you're increasing your fat catabolism even further.

Eating is anabolic. When you eat, your body starts taking the food energy from your gut and it builds tissue with it. First of all, if you eat carbs (starches and sugar) your body releases insulin which imports glucose (blood sugar) into your muscles and liver. Insulin is one of your body's natural anabolic compounds (again, think "anabolic steroids").

Since I'm lifting weights once a week, to build strength and muscle, what I'm really trying to do is optimize my anabolism around lifting. I want to have all my muscles chock full of energy (glycogen, made from carbs, derived from starches and sugar) before I start my workout, and I also want to have my body's natural anabolic compounds streaming through my blood, which includes insulin but also testosterone and growth hormone.

Growth hormone ("human" growth hormone, or "HGH", which is redundant since I am a human) is promoted by prolonged fasting, although I don't know how it is affected once I start eating, which is some time before I start my weekly workout. But testosterone is the primary androgenic anabolic compound, and this is the one I really want to promote in order to achieve good muscle building.

I am still learning, but even before I find the answer I have been, as live experimentation, making sure to eat cholesterol (eggs, butter, meat) because I am under the (perhaps wrong) impression that cholesterol is a precursor to testosterone, meaning that my body can make testosterone from cholesterol so that I'm peaking in testosterone by the time I'm ready to start lifting, which will promote muscle growth.
 

Jefferson

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'Working on a fast rn, tonight will be 72 hours. Nothing but water, black coffee, and my meds. I haven't had any salt yet on this one, that's new for me (usually I'm having a pickle or two), but so far no signs of diminished electrolytes (muscle cramps).

I'll have some salt water today if I need it (the semi-potassium variety). Maybe a pickle. I do love my pickles. :)

What's the purpose in limiting salt intake? Adding a stressor? Something else?

So when you see a fatty like me...

What is your height and weight?
 

Idolater

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What's the purpose in limiting salt intake? Adding a stressor? Something else?
I've just read about needing to watch electrolytes, and I've been preemptively eating salt as a result without ever reaching an observable deficit, thought for this go-round I'd push a little to see if I could force a response.
What is your height and weight?
Uncomfortable revealing these details, for anonymity. Suffice to say my waist is longer around than half as I am tall, which is the metric I'm using for body composition. iow if I were say 64 inches tall I want my waist to be 32 inches around or less. This way, I'm defeating the problem with using BMI as a metric, which doesn't take into account muscle mass.
 

TomO

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This way, I'm defeating the problem with using BMI as a metric, which doesn't take into account muscle mass.

BMI Has plagued me my entire life...All through the Military I was on the weight program. On my last day of basic I had visible "6-Pack" abs. I was 5'11 & 176lbs....And I was Overweight!...Full freaking six-pack and I'm too fat! 🤬

:sneaky: I'll never forget the first visit I had with my long term Doctor...He was an Osteopath and came very highly recommended both by people in the church and the gym I was attending. I think he was having an off day because he kind of wandered into the exam room with my chart and was looking down at it as he walked in meandering on about how he was concerned about my weight and if I ever went to a gym. I told him I was kind of slacking since my workout was down to a Mon.-Wed.-Fri. two-hour morning sessions with a 3 hour cardio-only Sunday session every other week or so.
He stopped looked up from the chart and the next thing you know I was on the induction fat-checker and then getting the caliper treatment to verify...Turns out that I was something like 16% body fat (Not great but a bit above average.)at the same 5'11 but now 250-255 lbs. (I would gain/loose 5lbs in water daily I think).
He was the first person that I can remember that ever referred to ME as an athlete. :D

I judge health professionals on the basis of how much credence they give to BMI. 😐
 

Jefferson

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Just came across a new (for me) researcher. Not just on fasting. I'm really impressed with him.

 

Idolater

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... testosterone is the primary androgenic anabolic compound, and this is the one I really want to promote in order to achieve good muscle building.

I am still learning, but even before I find the answer I have been, as live experimentation, making sure to eat cholesterol (eggs, butter, meat) because I am under the (perhaps wrong) impression that cholesterol is a precursor to testosterone
Cholesterol is a precursor to testosterone,
, meaning that my body can make testosterone from cholesterol so that I'm peaking in testosterone by the time I'm ready to start lifting, which will promote muscle growth.
but it's possible that eating more cholesterol actually decreases your body's testosterone, based on a rat study I found. I have no idea if the study applies to humans, but I do know that I didn't see any particular advantage in the weight room from eating excessive and targeted cholesterol, so I'm off cholesterol now. I mean I don't avoid it, but I do look for places where I'm eating way more than I need to, and cut it, just for safety.

(Your liver makes plenty of cholesterol whether you eat cholesterol or not, fyi.)
 

Idolater

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Just came across a new (for me) researcher. Not just on fasting. I'm really impressed with him.

He's OK, he's not bad. He's usually very thorough. But his whole "brand" is to be an expert, and it works because he is an expert, and teaches at Stanford's medical school, but that is his day job, and his podcasts and videos are only his hobby, which means he's actually basically no more authoritative on the subjects he covers than you or me, on his podcasts. But we listen to him because he's thorough and articulate (being a Stanford Medical professor, this is just who he is, this isn't a "flex" for him) and impressive, because he's also a Stanford professor.

He's very clear on his podcasts that his podcasts are not his day job. The podcast's his business, his side hustle, his hobby, but it's not his day job. In his day job, he really is an authentic, genuine expert. You only get that content, if you pay Stanford University.

He's big on sunlight exposure every morning. Have you looked into that? Something to do with cortisol.
 

Jefferson

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He's OK, he's not bad. He's usually very thorough. But his whole "brand" is to be an expert, and it works because he is an expert, and teaches at Stanford's medical school, but that is his day job, and his podcasts and videos are only his hobby, which means he's actually basically no more authoritative on the subjects he covers than you or me, on his podcasts. But we listen to him because he's thorough and articulate (being a Stanford Medical professor, this is just who he is, this isn't a "flex" for him) and impressive, because he's also a Stanford professor.

He's very clear on his podcasts that his podcasts are not his day job. The podcast's his business, his side hustle, his hobby, but it's not his day job. In his day job, he really is an authentic, genuine expert. You only get that content, if you pay Stanford University.
Reminds me of another interviewer, Lex Fridman. I just thought Lex was a talented, young interviewer. I thought that was his day job. But I recently learned his actual name is Dr. Lex Fridman. He's a Research Scientist at MIT, an expert on artificial intelligence and robotics as well as a black belt in Jujitsu. If you're not familiar with him, he has over 2 million subscribers. There is a reason for it.
He's big on sunlight exposure every morning. Have you looked into that? Something to do with cortisol.
I'm familiar with sunlight exposure being beneficial for properly setting our circadian rhythms. Not familiar with its effect on cortisol. I will have to see what Huberman says about that.
 

Idolater

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Reminds me of another interviewer, Lex Fridman. I just thought Lex was a talented, young interviewer. I thought that was his day job. But I recently learned his actual name is Dr. Lex Fridman. He's a Research Scientist at MIT, an expert on artificial intelligence and robotics as well as a black belt in Jujitsu. If you're not familiar with him, he has over 2 million subscribers. There is a reason for it.
There's another guy out there too, who's big on fasting (I found his podcast when searching for fasting content), and he too is at one of these elite universities, he's at Harvard. Sounds like there's a type.
I'm familiar with sunlight exposure being beneficial for properly setting our circadian rhythms. Not familiar with its effect on cortisol. I will have to see what Huberman says about that.
One of things I saw was where he talked about how to improve testosterone, and one of them was exercise (unsurprising) but the other one was basically, small victories. When you literally win, at like anything, your testosterone improves. My impression was that it's most effective when you compete but the competition isn't hard and you can win easily. When you can do that a lot, your testosterone improves a lot.

Honestly it made me think about playing kids at checkers or something and instead of letting them win, wiping up the board with them, all for testosterone gains lol.
 

Jefferson

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When you literally win, at like anything, your testosterone improves.
I guess that means I should keep dominating at Wordle.
Honestly it made me think about playing kids at checkers or something and instead of letting them win, wiping up the board with them, all for testosterone gains lol.
Michael Jordan never eased up when playing against kids.
 
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