Even Most Liberals Believe America Is in Moral Decline

The Barbarian

The Barbarian

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So, for conservatives, the proposition that morals are declining shows that fewer are thinking so since 2007.


Sample size: 9
Mean x (x̄): 5
Mean y (ȳ): 86.333333333333
Intercept (a): 89.833333333333
Slope (b): -0.7
Regression line equation: y=89.833333333333-0.7x

For liberals:
Sample size: 9
Mean x (x̄): 5
Mean y (ȳ): 58.777777777778
Intercept (a): 66.027777777778
Slope (b): -1.45
Regression line equation: y=66.027777777778-1.45x

So they too, agree with conservatives in rejecting the idea that morals are declining.

Assuming A4T's data is correct.

I have no idea how she got exactly the opposite message here. Even if you eyeball the graph, you can see a slight downward trend in the opinion that morals are declining.
 
Granite

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Nostalgia's one heck of a drug. "In my day" and what have you.

Things weren't better, necessarily--there was simply less for one to kvetch about because you were at room temperature.
 
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bybee

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Granite said:
Nostalgia's one heck of a drug. "In my day" and what have you.

Things weren't better, necessarily--there was simply less for one to kvetch about because you were at room temperature.
Click to expand...

Today is a good day. I have lots of good yesterdays stored in my memory banks. If tomorrow comes for me, then, today may be a good memory.
 
Buzzword

Buzzword

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Granite said:
Nostalgia's one heck of a drug. "In my day" and what have you.

Things weren't better, necessarily--there was simply less for one to kvetch about because you were at room temperature.
Click to expand...

I've noticed that most of that attitude stems from the fact that the speaker was YOUNGER in the time period being reminisced about.

So most of the complaining is not "The world is worse than it used to be," but that "I'm older than I used to be, and I hate being old".
Or more precisely, "I now perceive the world more fully than I did as a child, and I hate that and want my old naivete back."

The rest of it stems from frustration with inflation (to quote Mr. Bunker, "Fifty dollars paid the rent"), which I find hilariously ironic given the number of people here who whine for the good ol' days, then vehemently support continued inflation.

America is in decline, but not morally so much as economically, politically, etc.
We've spent the better part of three generations being indoctrinated to believe that unfettered capitalism is the best of all possible worlds, that socialism was passed over by natural selection in the distant past and could never work in real life, and that nothing should be done for anyone if the doer does not receive more in return than he/she contributed.

Meanwhile the rest of the developed world has fettered capitalism at the local level so that it profits the community and/or nation as a whole instead of funneling wealth to a few individuals (while growing in disdain for us as the source of the plague), has implemented successful socialist policies for free public transit, universal high-quality primary and secondary education, free postsecondary education, free healthcare (not health INSURANCE, healthCARE), extended paid maternity leave, guaranteed paid sick leave, and a slew of other policies which have drastically improved quality of life.

And created a greater sense of community in doing so.
 
T

TrakeM

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Buzzword said:
I've noticed that most of that attitude stems from the fact that the speaker was YOUNGER in the time period being reminisced about.

So most of the complaining is not "The world is worse than it used to be," but that "I'm older than I used to be, and I hate being old".
Or more precisely, "I now perceive the world more fully than I did as a child, and I hate that and want my old naivete back."

The rest of it stems from frustration with inflation (to quote Mr. Bunker, "Fifty dollars paid the rent"), which I find hilariously ironic given the number of people here who whine for the good ol' days, then vehemently support continued inflation.

America is in decline, but not morally so much as economically, politically, etc.
We've spent the better part of three generations being indoctrinated to believe that unfettered capitalism is the best of all possible worlds, that socialism was passed over by natural selection in the distant past and could never work in real life, and that nothing should be done for anyone if the doer does not receive more in return than he/she contributed.

Meanwhile the rest of the developed world has fettered capitalism at the local level so that it profits the community and/or nation as a whole instead of funneling wealth to a few individuals (while growing in disdain for us as the source of the plague), has implemented successful socialist policies for free public transit, universal high-quality primary and secondary education, free postsecondary education, free healthcare (not health INSURANCE, healthCARE), extended paid maternity leave, guaranteed paid sick leave, and a slew of other policies which have drastically improved quality of life.

And created a greater sense of community in doing so.
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This is what real morality is about. How we treat the poor, how we deal with corruption, whether we embrace and celebrate greed. This is what it means to have a great nation.

Greatness as a nation and morality isn't about hating gay people. I choose morality over christianity and the bible. The nations that do are better off for it. Just look at Denmark, Switzerland, Sweden, and Canada.
 
lucaspa

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I'd say the social liberals were reacting to the lack of morals by bankers during the financial crisis. Then, of course, the "stand your ground" cases highlighted moral problems as some people felt free to kill other people. More recently, we have the number of cases of police killing unarmed civilians. Not to mention the publication of the continuing high rate of rape in the country.

All of those get to some basic moral issues like "do not steal" and "do not murder". So I can see why social liberals would see a decline in morals.
 
lucaspa

lucaspa

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Angel4Truth said:
Then you don't think morals are declining in America?
Click to expand...
As I read the details of history, there have always been moral problems. There tends to be improvement in some areas, decline in others. Sometimes the "decline" is just because we are paying attention to them as moral problems.

For instance, there was a safety problem/rape issue on college campuses when I was in college in the early 1970s. There was progress made (the "no means no" campaign) in consent and as women gained more political and monetary power. However, it would seem that in the first 15 years of the 21st century that incidence of rape on campus has increased. We made progress on treating others as we want to be treated in race relations in that we were able to elect an African-American President, but we are also becoming aware of entrenched racism on the local level.

Our morality on treating others as we want to be treated improved in that gays and gay marriage is becoming accepted. OTOH, our fear after 9/11 led us into the immorality of condoning torture. But now we are recognizing that and backing off.

All in all, I think there has been a steady improvement in morality over history.
 
A

aikido7

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Hate to be blunt, but society is always in moral decline. From Deuteronomy 21:18-21 and all through the other ancient commentators like Cicero:

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book."

This is from the 1930s:

My grandpa notes the world's worn cogs
And says we're going to the dogs.
His grandpa in his house of logs
Said things were going to the dogs.
His grandpa in the Flemish bogs
Said things were going to the dogs.
His grandpa in his hairy togs
Said things were going to the dogs.
But this is what I wish to state:
The dogs have had an awful wait.

These examples were way before hip-hop music or the 1960s.

In other words, the idea of "the good old days" was around even back in those same "good old days."
 
K

Kdall

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aikido7 said:
Hate to be blunt, but society is always in moral decline. From Deuteronomy 21:18-21 and all through the other ancient commentators like Cicero:

"Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book."

This is from the 1930s:

My grandpa notes the world's worn cogs
And says we're going to the dogs.
His grandpa in his house of logs
Said things were going to the dogs.
His grandpa in the Flemish bogs
Said things were going to the dogs.
His grandpa in his hairy togs
Said things were going to the dogs.
But this is what I wish to state:
The dogs have had an awful wait.

These examples were way before hip-hop music or the 1960s.

In other words, the idea of "the good old days" was around even back in those same "good old days."
Click to expand...

Well said. The "good old days" is just referring to what each generation is most comfortable with. If you ask people that were in their 20s in the 1950s, then they say the best music was in the 50s, and if they were in their 20s in the 70s they will say the 1970s. The same rule applies
 
PureX

PureX

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Moral standards rise and fall over time. I believe they were quite high during the middle of the 20th century and a lot of social good resulted from it. But they have been on the wane since then, and a lot of suffering has resulted. And it will only get worse until it finally hurts enough of us that we'll be forced to do something about it.

When, and what we'll do, however, is anyone's guess.
 
Quincy

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I think the only thing that has changed is the willingness of people to be open and less sensitive about what they do in private.

Basically, there's less hypocrisy around now, unless you're a politician or making a living peddling faith.
 
A

aikido7

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Quincy said:
I think the only thing that has changed is the willingness of people to be open and less sensitive about what they do in private.

Basically, there's less hypocrisy around now, unless you're a politician or making a living peddling faith.
Click to expand...

"Everything hidden will be revealed."

--Luke 8:17
 
Ktoyou

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Doesn't the graph show liberals have always thought there is more a moral decline, over the period?
 
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