Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

beloved57

Well-known member
Men in our unregenerate natural state, dont seek after the True God, in fact we are alienated from the True God Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Also we are a slave to sin, meaning unbelief Rom 6:17

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

John 8:34

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. [all of us by nature are sinners] and that eliminates having a freewill to decide to seek after the True God.

Man also in this fallen condition loves the darkness rather than the Light, which God is light Jn 3:19

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

That tells us about our natural affections, what we Love ! But also not only does man love darkness, we also hate the Light and will not come to it. See will not come to it. Thats a will issue !

Jn 3:20

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
The only thing you have to know to discard nearly every syllable that b57 writes on this website is that God is righteous. If believing in a God that is just is important to you, then that's both the first and the last step in the process of rejecting Calvinism.

B57 claims the we have no free will but you choose a thousand things every single day of your life.

B57 quotes John 3:19 (without citing it) which tells us that it is the evil deeds of men that is the cause of their hatred of the light, but he wants you to believe that its the other way around and he'd love for you not to know that the verse comes two sentences after the most famous verse in the whole bible that explicitly states that one's salvation is contingent upon belief, not on God's arbitrary whim.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.​
B57 isn't likely at all to respond to this post because he isn't here to discuss or debate (because he'd lose), he's here to repeat himself endlessly but if he were to do so, he'd try to convince you that John 3:16 doesn't mean what it seems to mean because he DOES NOT believe that what it plainly says is the truth. He believes that he won the greatest cosmic lottery of all existence. He believes that God chose him to be saved for no reason at all. What's more is that he believes that his wife and children all won the exact same lottery and were also chosen, not because God chooses families (that would be a reason) but that he and his whole family and several people in his home town all just happened to be chosen for salvation for no reason whatsoever except that it pleased God to do it and, had God chosen to save him but not his kids, that would have been for God's pleasure too.

It's so unjust, it's blasphemy. If God is good, Calvinism is false - period.

Clete
 
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beloved57

Well-known member
clete

B57 claims the we have no free will but you choose a thousand things every single day of your life.

We freely choose according to our nature. If you put before a meat eating lion, a nice piece of zebra meat, and a bowl of blackberries, which one will he chose to eat according to his nature ?

B57 quotes John 3:19 (without citing it) which tells us that it is the evil deeds of men that is the cause of their hatred of the light

Because of mans nature, by nature we love darkness. Love has to do with our affections, which has to do with our nature. Men by nature we are darkness personified Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

Not in darkness, but the noun darkness,

So darkness loves darkness, its compatible. Even our so called good deeds, righteousness's is darkness, evil, proceeding from a evil tree.

Jn 3:19

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Man naturlly loves darkness, so his deeds are evil, proceeding out of evil nature, darkness.
 

Clete

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clete



We freely choose according to our nature. If you put before a meat eating lion, a nice piece of zebra meat, and a bowl of blackberries, which one will he chose to eat according to his nature ?
Typical Calvinist double talk.

You believe that every single event that happens was predestined by God before time began and that nothing could ever happen apart or in any way different from what God predestined. You further believe that there was NO CAUSE for what God predestined. In other words, it isn't that God peaked into the future and predestined things based on what He saw would be our nature, but rather our very nature itself along with the actions that we perform were equally predestined by God by His arbitrary will.

You don't get to have it both ways. You can pretend to have it both ways but pretending is for little girls having tea parties with little plastic cups.

If you cannot have chosen otherwise, you do not choose at all.

Because of mans nature, by nature we love darkness.
So says you.

Love has to do with our affections, which has to do with our nature.
Love is impossible without the ability to choose. Love is a choice, by definition - (as are all things related to morality). If I cannot reject God, it is impossible for me to love Him. Without volition, love has no meaning.

Men by nature we are darkness personified Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Nonsense.

Deuteronomy 1:39 ‘Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.​
Luke 1:41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit​


......Even our so called good deeds, righteousness's is darkness, evil, proceeding from a evil tree.
So says you. God says otherwise...

Ezekiel18:1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:​
‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,​
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?​
3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.​
4 “Behold, all souls are Mine;​
The soul of the father​
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;​
The soul who sins shall die.​
5 But if a man is just​
And does what is lawful and right;​
Then....​
9b He is just;
He shall surely live!”​
Says the Lord God

God is NOT unjust!

Jn 3:19

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Man naturlly loves darkness, so his deeds are evil, proceeding out of evil nature, darkness.
You don't actually see it when you turn these things backward, do you?

It doesn't say that people who hate the light do evil, it says that those who do evil hate the light. Their hatred of the light is BECAUSE their deeds were evil. The hatred of the light is the result of the evil deeds, not the cause!

You are literally blind to the difference there, aren't you? You've read your doctrine into every passage so thoroughly and for so long that you can't even tell you're doing it any more than a fish knows he's wet.

Clete
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Typical Calvinist double talk.

You believe that every single event that happens was predestined by God before time began and that nothing could ever happen apart or in any way different from what God predestined. You further believe that there was NO CAUSE for what God predestined. In other words, it isn't that God peaked into the future and predestined things based on what He saw would be our nature, but rather our very nature itself along with the actions that we perform were equally predestined by God by His arbitrary will.

You don't get to have it both ways. You can pretend to have it both ways but pretending is for little girls having tea parties with little plastic cups.

If you cannot have chosen otherwise, you do not choose at all.


So says you.


Love is impossible without the ability to choose. Love is a choice, by definition - (as are all things related to morality). If I cannot reject God, it is impossible for me to love Him. Without volition, love has no meaning.


Nonsense.

Deuteronomy 1:39 ‘Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.​
Luke 1:41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit​



So says you. God says otherwise...

Ezekiel18:1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:​
‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,​
And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?​
3 “As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.​
4 “Behold, all souls are Mine;​
The soul of the father​
As well as the soul of the son is Mine;​
The soul who sins shall die.​
5 But if a man is just​
And does what is lawful and right;​
Then....​
9b He is just;
He shall surely live!”​
Says the Lord God

God is NOT unjust!


You don't actually see it when you turn these things backward, do you?

It doesn't say that people who hate the light do evil, it says that those who do evil hate the light. Their hatred of the light is BECAUSE their deeds were evil. The hatred of the light is the result of the evil deeds, not the cause!

You are literally blind to the difference there, aren't you? You've read your doctrine into every passage so thoroughly and for so long that you can't even tell you're doing it any more than a fish knows he's wet.

Clete
Apparently you dont understand the sinful nature of man.
 

beloved57

Well-known member
clete

......Even our so called good deeds, righteousness's is darkness, evil, proceeding from a evil tree.
So says you. God says otherwise...

Oh no, the prophet Isaiah speaking wrote Isa 64:6

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Righteousnesses here means our righteous act, moral conduct is like a used menstrual cloth before God. I understand this is something man by nature doesnt know and understand about the natural man. It has to be revealed by God friend to understand this !
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
clete

......Even our so called good deeds, righteousness's is darkness, evil, proceeding from a evil tree.
So says you. God says otherwise...

Oh no, the prophet Isaiah speaking wrote Isa 64:6

6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Your proof texting a single out of context sentence doesn't negate the whole passages of scripture that contradict your doctrine.

Righteousnesses here means our righteous act, moral conduct is like a used menstrual cloth before God. I understand this is something man by nature doesnt know and understand about the natural man. It has to be revealed by God friend to understand this !
Your "revealed by God" doctrine is in contradiction to God's word which was written down for everyone to read so that men, like you, are without excuse. Not that you'd have an excuse without the bible, God's own creation and your every day experience teaches you as every moment of your life passes by that you do have the ability to CHOOSE and that God is NOT arbitrary. You KNOW intuitively what justice looks like and you choose to despise justice and insult the righteousness of the real God and worship instead the changeless stone idol that was the immutable god of the ancient Greeks.

Clete


P.S. This is a text based forum. If you can't be bothered to do at least a minimum of proper spelling and grammar, you might want to find a different hobby. Your computer almost certain underlines all your typos in red for you. Don't be lazy - well, unless God predestined you to be lazy, in that case, anything goes, right?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
Translation: "Apparently, you aren't a Calvinist."

Heaven forbid you address a syllable of what I actually said with an actual attempt to make a real argument. You're incapable of it!
Well I took the time to explain it to you.
 

Lawson

BANNED
Banned

Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?​

Responding to title only:

Yes -- there is an evolutionary advantage to belief in God. Abstract concepts are too vague and boring for many of our brethren to bear. Passion infused personality and drama burns a message in our hearts that our brain could miss due to incompetence.
 

Derf

Well-known member

Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?​

Responding to title only:

Yes -- there is an evolutionary advantage to belief in God. Abstract concepts are too vague and boring for many of our brethren to bear. Passion infused personality and drama burns a message in our hearts that our brain could miss due to incompetence.
Do you think there might be a more immediate advantage, rather than just an evolutionary one, as evolutionary advantages seem to be designed to benefit only those that come after you?
 

beloved57

Well-known member

Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?​

Responding to title only:

Yes -- there is an evolutionary advantage to belief in God. Abstract concepts are too vague and boring for many of our brethren to bear. Passion infused personality and drama burns a message in our hearts that our brain could miss due to incompetence.
The answer is no, and I have explained why
 

Clete

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Silver Subscriber
The answer is no, and I have explained why
You've explained no such thing. What you've done is stated your doctrine and cherry picked a hand full of out of context sentences from the bible to try and prop it up.

If God is just then your doctrine is false. God is just, therefore, the god you worship does not exist.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber

Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?​

Responding to title only:

Yes -- there is an evolutionary advantage to belief in God. Abstract concepts are too vague and boring for many of our brethren to bear. Passion infused personality and drama burns a message in our hearts that our brain could miss due to incompetence.
There is no evidence that evolution happened. None!

Further, what you referred to as "our hearts" is our mind (not the same thing as our brain). Evolution could have produced neither the brain nor the mind therein.

Lastly, you, as evolutionists typically do, claim an advantage exists and then never bother to explain how whatever it is they're talking about gives any sort of advantage, much less an evolutionary one. Perhaps its one of the vague and boring abstractions to which you refer.
 

7djengo7

Well-known member

Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?​

Responding to title only:

Yes -- there is an evolutionary advantage to belief in God. Abstract concepts are too vague and boring for many of our brethren to bear. Passion infused personality and drama burns a message in our hearts that our brain could miss due to incompetence.

Advantage to believing what about God? Truth about God? Falsehood about God?
 

beloved57

Well-known member
The scripture gives the truth about the natural state of man, it states unequivocally that none, in nature who understands with the heart and seeks after the True God, observe the witness of scripture from the OT and NT Ps 14:2-3


2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

NT Testimony Rom 3:11-12


11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

This is what God sees of all men naturally when He looks down from heaven.

Yet some people say that Gods foreknowledge means He looks down from heaven and choses people in election because He sees they will accept Him ! That concept is not scriptural ! Doesnt matter what people teach , no natural unregenerate man seeks after God !

Thus the necessity of the New Birth !
 
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