ECT Does grace make void the "Ten Commandments"?

Arsenios

Well-known member
Do you think Paul would think so? What say you, MAD-ists?

Well, there is nothing wrong with the 10 Commandments... Irreligious of what MAD-ists might say...

A fruitful venue might be along the lines that because dis-obedience caused the Fall of man, obedience is the way to his restoration... So that the Law gave us an obedience to God under which Christ was born... But Christ is the FULFILLMENT of the Law, and we are still sinners...

So that the way of the Christian is now obedience to Christ, and not to the Levitical Law of Moses... And just as Christ discipled His Disciples, so also do they disciple their disciples, from generation to generation, and Christ is the Head of His Body, and the Body of Christ is the Church, and we in the Church are members of His Body... So that our obedience is to the elders of the Body of Christ, and in this, Paul is in full agreement:

"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you."

In the beginning, our obedience makes us no different from slaves, even though we are the heirs of all, until we should come to maturity in Christ, perfected in the Faith of Christ, which He discipled to His Disciples...

Arsenios
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Well, there is nothing wrong with the 10 Commandments... Irreligious of what MAD-ists might say...

A fruitful venue might be along the lines that because dis-obedience caused the Fall of man, obedience is the way to his restoration... So that the Law gave us an obedience to God under which Christ was born... But Christ is the FULFILLMENT of the Law, and we are still sinners...

So that the way of the Christian is now obedience to Christ, and not to the Levitical Law of Moses... And just as Christ discipled His Disciples, so also do they disciple their disciples, from generation to generation, and Christ is the Head of His Body, and the Body of Christ is the Church, and we in the Church are members of His Body... So that our obedience is to the elders of the Body of Christ, and in this, Paul is in full agreement:

"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you."[/COLOR]

In the beginning, our obedience makes us no different from slaves, even though we are the heirs of all, until we should come to maturity in Christ, perfected in the Faith of Christ, which He discipled to His Disciples...

Arsenios



i knew some 'brainwashers' that love that verse - :patrol:
 

Cross Reference

New member
Well, there is nothing wrong with the 10 Commandments... Irreligious of what MAD-ists might say...

A fruitful venue might be along the lines that because dis-obedience caused the Fall of man, obedience is the way to his restoration... So that the Law gave us an obedience to God under which Christ was born... But Christ is the FULFILLMENT of the Law, and we are still sinners...

So that the way of the Christian is now obedience to Christ, and not to the Levitical Law of Moses... And just as Christ discipled His Disciples, so also do they disciple their disciples, from generation to generation, and Christ is the Head of His Body, and the Body of Christ is the Church, and we in the Church are members of His Body... So that our obedience is to the elders of the Body of Christ, and in this, Paul is in full agreement:

"Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you."

In the beginning, our obedience makes us no different from slaves, even though we are the heirs of all, until we should come to maturity in Christ, perfected in the Faith of Christ, which He discipled to His Disciples...

Arsenios

Good post, Arsenios!

Question: Is the church to be given our allegiance or God? What is your understanding?
 

nodelink

New member
There is an old rhyme that serves as something of an antinomian theme song. It says:

“Freed from the law, O blessed condition; I can sin all I want and still have remission.” [Wrong !]

This rhyme was quoted for illustration of an error by R.C. Sproul in his book: "Essential truths of the Christian faith." Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House.

Antinomianism is a form of spiritual anarchy which rejects the law as having any place in the Christian life.

Antinomianism literally means “anti-lawism.” It denies or downplays the significance of God’s law. It is the opposite of its twin heresy, legalism.

Where lawlessness prevails there is crime and injustice and suffering.

Few persons claim to be antinomian but many actually are.

Civil societies have laws and maintain "law and order".

Jesus is yet destined to be Governor over the nations. It is unfulfilled prophecy that the "government shall be upon his shoulder".

Like all governments, the government of Jesus Christ will have laws.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
And the government shall be upon his shoulder:
And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,
Upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom,
To order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice
From henceforth even for ever.
The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. - Isaiah 9:6-7
 

Cross Reference

New member
There is an old rhyme that serves as something of an antinomian theme song. It says:

“Freed from the law, O blessed condition; I can sin all I want and still have remission.” [Wrong !]

This rhyme was quoted for illustration of an error by R.C. Sproul in his book: "Essential truths of the Christian faith." Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House.

Antinomianism is a form of spiritual anarchy which rejects the law as having any place in the Christian life.

Antinomianism literally means “anti-lawism.” It denies or downplays the significance of God’s law. It is the opposite of its twin heresy, legalism.

Where lawlessness prevails there is crime and injustice and suffering.

Few persons claim to be antinomian but many actually are.

Civil societies have laws and maintain "law and order".

Jesus is yet destined to be Governor over the nations. It is unfulfilled prophecy that the "government shall be upon his shoulder".

Like all governments, the government of Jesus Christ will have laws.

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
And the government shall be upon his shoulder:
And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God,
The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,
Upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom,
To order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice
From henceforth even for ever.
The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. - Isaiah 9:6-7

A Great entry! Hello nodelink. Thanks and since I am not a fan/adherent of anything Sproul, can you post the excerpt of his error from his book?
 

nodelink

New member
A Great entry! Hello nodelink. Thanks and since I am not a fan/adherent of anything Sproul, can you post the excerpt of his error from his book?

Longer excerpt is shown below...

90. ANTINOMIANISM


There is an old rhyme that serves as something of an antinomian theme song. It says, “Freed from the law, O blessed condition; I can sin all I want and still have remission.”Antinomianism literally means “anti-lawism.” It denies or downplays the significance of God’s law in the life of the believer. It is the opposite of its twin heresy, legalism.

Antinomians acquire their distaste for the law in a number of ways.

Some believe that they no longer are obligated to keep the moral law of God because Jesus has freed them from it. They insist that grace not only frees us from the curse of God’s law but delivers us from any obligation to obey God’s law. Grace then becomes a license for disobedience.

The astounding thing is that people hold this view despite Paul’s vigorous teaching against it. Paul, more than any other New Testament writer, emphasized the differences between law and grace. He gloried in the New Covenant. Nevertheless, he was most explicit in his condemnation of antinomianism. In Romans 3:31 he writes, “Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.”

Martin Luther, in expressing the doctrine of justification by faith alone, was charged with antinomianism. Yet he affirmed with James that “faith without works is dead.” Luther contested with his student Johann Agricola on this issue. Agricola denied that the law had any purpose in the life of the believer. He even denied that the law served to prepare the sinner for grace. Luther responded to Agricola with his work Against the Antinomians in 1539. Agricola later recanted his antinomian teachings, but the issue remained.

Subsequent Lutheran theologians affirmed Luther’s view of the law. In the Formula of Concord (1577), the last of the classical Lutheran statements of faith, they outlined three uses for the law: (1) to reveal sin; (2) to establish general decency in the society at large; and (3) to provide a rule of life for those regenerated through faith in Christ.

Antinomianism’s primary error is confusing justification with sanctification. We are justified by faith alone, apart from works. However, all believers grow in faith by keeping God’s holy commands—not to gain God’s favor, but out of loving gratitude for the grace already bestowed on them through the work of Christ.

It is a serious error to assume that the Old Testament was a covenant of law and the New Testament, a covenant of grace. The Old Testament is a monumental testimony to God’s amazing grace toward His people. Likewise, the New Testament is literally filled with commandments. We are not saved by the law, but we demonstrate our love for Christ by obeying His commandments. “If you love Me,” Jesus said, “keep My commandments” (John 14:15).


Sproul, R. C. (1992). Essential truths of the Christian faith. Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Longer excerpt is shown below...

90. ANTINOMIANISM


There is an old rhyme that serves as something of an antinomian theme song. It says, “Freed from the law, O blessed condition; I can sin all I want and still have remission.”Antinomianism literally means “anti-lawism.” It denies or downplays the significance of God’s law in the life of the believer. It is the opposite of its twin heresy, legalism.

Antinomians acquire their distaste for the law in a number of ways.

Some believe that they no longer are obligated to keep the moral law of God because Jesus has freed them from it. They insist that grace not only frees us from the curse of God’s law but delivers us from any obligation to obey God’s law. Grace then becomes a license for disobedience.

The astounding thing is that people hold this view despite Paul’s vigorous teaching against it. Paul, more than any other New Testament writer, emphasized the differences between law and grace. He gloried in the New Covenant. Nevertheless, he was most explicit in his condemnation of antinomianism. In Romans 3:31 he writes, “Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.”

Martin Luther, in expressing the doctrine of justification by faith alone, was charged with antinomianism. Yet he affirmed with James that “faith without works is dead.” Luther contested with his student Johann Agricola on this issue. Agricola denied that the law had any purpose in the life of the believer. He even denied that the law served to prepare the sinner for grace. Luther responded to Agricola with his work Against the Antinomians in 1539. Agricola later recanted his antinomian teachings, but the issue remained.

Subsequent Lutheran theologians affirmed Luther’s view of the law. In the Formula of Concord (1577), the last of the classical Lutheran statements of faith, they outlined three uses for the law: (1) to reveal sin; (2) to establish general decency in the society at large; and (3) to provide a rule of life for those regenerated through faith in Christ.

Antinomianism’s primary error is confusing justification with sanctification. We are justified by faith alone, apart from works. However, all believers grow in faith by keeping God’s holy commands—not to gain God’s favor, but out of loving gratitude for the grace already bestowed on them through the work of Christ.

It is a serious error to assume that the Old Testament was a covenant of law and the New Testament, a covenant of grace. The Old Testament is a monumental testimony to God’s amazing grace toward His people. Likewise, the New Testament is literally filled with commandments. We are not saved by the law, but we demonstrate our love for Christ by obeying His commandments. “If you love Me,” Jesus said, “keep My commandments” (John 14:15).


Sproul, R. C. (1992). Essential truths of the Christian faith. Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House.

The last paragraph is of presumption by him when declaring "we demonstrate" as if it is a normal way of life for any-every reform Christian.


Couple o questions: Overall, are you for or against Sproul's paper?
2. What are the commandants of Jesus Christ? 3. How are they made known to us? 4. What is your position in the whole matter? __Thanks again.
 

nodelink

New member
Question: Does God have a will to be done?

Answer: Yes, God has a Will that He wants to be done. God's Will is expressed in God's Word. Metaphysical realities like conscience and reason also instruct us in the Will of God.

Evidence for the ongoing reality of the Will of God is seen in the Lord's Prayer: (May) Thy Will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

This prayer is like a prophecy. Christ taught this prayer but a complete fulfillment in answer to this prayer has not been accomplished but will be accomplished.

Question: Who is opposed to God's Will and interested that deeds be committed and omitted that are contrary to God's Will?

Answer: Satan, devils and demons

Question: Whose will do you want to do?

Answers: [Your turn]
 

Cross Reference

New member
Question: Does God have a will to be done?

Answer: Yes, God has a Will that He wants to be done. God's Will is expressed in God's Word. Metaphysical realities like conscience and reason also instruct us in the Will of God.

Evidence for the ongoing reality of the Will of God is seen in the Lord's Prayer: (May) Thy Will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

This prayer is like a prophecy. Christ taught this prayer but a complete fulfillment in answer to this prayer has not been accomplished but will be accomplished.

Question: Who is opposed to God's Will and interested that deeds be committed and omitted that are contrary to God's Will?

Answer: Satan, devils and demons

Question: Whose will do you want to do?

Answers: [Your turn]

What Christian do you know who can express, except in a very general way -- if at all, God's will that they take it to heart and seek to do it? I don't know of any except those who understand how to hear from God in a personal way, His written word speaks of and Jesus exampled.
 

nodelink

New member
What Christian do you know who can express, except in a very general way -- if at all, God's will that they take it to heart and seek to do it? I don't know of any except those who understand how to hear from God in a personal way, His written word speaks of and Jesus exampled.

Are we really ignorant of the Will of God? I think not.

Do you think that it is God's will for you to be diligent or lazy for the rest of today (assuming normal health and circumstances)?

Is it God's Will for you to love God?

Is it God's Will for you to love your neighbor?

Is it God's Will for you to be thankful and to have self-control?

We actually do know the answers to these questions. We know God's will.

The will of Satan is for us to behave contrary to the will of God.

Multiple Bible passages related to the Will of God could be cited.

At the very least, we could pray this prayer for ourselves and others:

"...do not cease to pray for you and to desire that you might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding." - Colossians 1:9

If we don't know God's Will, we can and should seek God's Will.

See also Ephesians 5:17.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Are we really ignorant of the Will of God? I think not.

Do you think that it is God's will for you to be diligent or lazy for the rest of today (assuming normal health and circumstances)?

Is it God's Will for you to love God?

Is it God's Will for you to love your neighbor?

Is it God's Will for you to be thankful and to have self-control?

We actually do know the answers to these questions. We know God's will.

The will of Satan is for us to behave contrary to the will of God.

Multiple Bible passages related to the Will of God could be cited.

At the very least, we could pray this prayer for ourselves and others:

"...do not cease to pray for you and to desire that you might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding." - Colossians 1:9

If we don't know God's Will, we can and should seek God's Will.

See also Ephesians 5:17.

Are you basing God's will upon doing righteous works?

Him doing the works or me?
 
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nodelink

New member
Are you basing God's will upon doing righteous works?

What are you seeking (with your questions)?

Do you think that the only motives are bad motives?

Almighty God has endorsed love and good works in the New Testament Book of Hebrews. See Hebrews 10:24-25. Satan is opposed to God and opposed to love and good works. Again, whose side are you really on?
 
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nodelink

New member
God's law will be part of a future Millennial Kingdom where King Jesus rules in the restored royal line of King David.

Micah 4:1-3

But in the last days it shall come to pass,
That the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains,
And it shall be exalted above the hills;
And people shall flow unto it.
2* And many nations shall come, and say,
Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
And to the house of the God of Jacob;
And he will teach us of his ways,
And we will walk in his paths:
For the law shall go forth of Zion,
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3 And he shall judge among many people,

And rebuke strong nations afar off;
And they shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruninghooks:
Nation shall not lift up a sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war any more.



God does not change. Moral standards do not change. The Ten Commandments would still be valid.

Micah and Isaiah were both alive and prophesying at the same time. Isaiah 2:1–3 is restated in Micah 4:1-3.

Isaiah 2:3 "...For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem."

Jesus will judge using the standards of his Law-Word. See also John 12:48.
 

Cross Reference

New member
What are you seeking (with your questions)?

Do you think that the only motives are bad motives?

Almighty God has endorsed love and good works in the New Testament Book of Hebrews. See Hebrews 10:24-25. Satan is opposed to God and opposed to love and good works. Again, whose side are you really on?


I am seeking to know, from you, what part intimacy with God plays in your thinking when "doing" whatever it is YOU believe needs doing? Jesus said He only did what He saw His Father doing. I would assume nothing more. How 'bout you?
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
Keeps God's law :poly: (but not all of the ordinances that the Jews added :blabla:). Mt 23:2–3 Put first things first (Mal 4:4, Mt 23:23).

Don't Blink
1sm237cowboy.gif
~ Kenny Chesney

All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not [Matt. 23:3].

"That is, do as the Scriptures teach, but don’t follow the works of scribes and Pharisees because they are not following the Word of God." Matthew 14-28..."

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone [Matt. 23:23].

"They were very meticulous in tithing their little plants which produce condiments like mint, anise, and cummin. For instance, when I was a boy, my mother always grew a little patch of mint out in the backyard to put in iced tea in the summertime. Can you imagine one of these religious rulers measuring off a little patch of mint and taking a tenth of it to give to the Lord? Oh, they were so strict about those little matters! But our Lord says, “You have forgotten about the weightier matters of the law.” And those weightier matters would have brought these men to the person of Christ." McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (Matthew 14-28) (electronic ed., Vol. 35, p. 120). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

As a reminder Cross Reference is number 7 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in the Misc. category. :burnlib:
 
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