ECT Does 'fulfilled prophecy' reinforce the Bible?

Interplanner

Well-known member
I'm referring of course to the 'industry' that has popped up since the 60s of thinking that modern Israel has something to do with many OT texts about which the NT has already spoken, or with obscure lines from the Revelation.

One of the reasons it became 'needed' was that about 100 years ago modernism really, agressively defined its agenda against Scripture, especially on the philosophic level (it supposed it could destroy even the possibility of God communicating to man along with the existence of God), and believers scrambled for anything that would help. Enter the modern events of Israel.

But there was no need, and there are lots of glaring contradictions. It is a huge mistake to address the problem from events in modern Israel and sort of work back from that to say other things are true about Scripture because of certain modern events.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Does 'fulfilled prophecy' reinforce the Bible?

No.

Jeremiah 18

7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it
.


So much for that evil perversion known as Calvinism.

I'm referring of course to the 'industry' that has popped up since the 60s of thinking that modern Israel has something to do with many OT texts about which the NT has already spoken, or with obscure lines from the Revelation.

Restoration happens at the end, not at the start. Israel in that regards is not even close to relevant.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
No.

Jeremiah 18

7 The instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, to pull down, and to destroy it, 8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it. 9 And the instant I speak concerning a nation and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it, 10 if it does evil in My sight so that it does not obey My voice, then I will relent concerning the good with which I said I would benefit it
.


So much for that evil perversion known as Calvinism.



Restoration happens at the end, not at the start. Israel in that regards is not even close to relevant.


Define restoration. Are you referring to Acts 2,3?
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
The restoration of the kingdom of Israel.
Hasn't happened yet.
But it will.

what makes you think so? There is nothing in the NT about that. Nothing in the the chapters on the 2nd coming in ordinary language: Rom 2, 8, 2 Tim 4, I Cor 15, 2 Pet 3, Heb 9.

Look at Lk 18 about leaving all things for the kingdom. Why would you do that if a kingdom was like something out of Judaism? Why would you then get 100x those things IN THIS AGE if you do forsake all?

Rom 11:26 is not about this at all. it is about justification from sins but it is not about a restoration of Israel.

That's why Acts 3 is referring to the restoration of ALL THINGS--the NHNE.
 

God's Truth

New member
Because there is no united kingdom of the two sticks (Judah & Israel) yet.
But there will be.
It's an oath God will keep.

All are united in Jesus Christ.

There is nothing better or more fulfilling than what has already happened, and that is Jesus Christ coming the first time. The next time he comes, it will be the end of the world, and too late for anyone to be saved that was not already saved.
 

God's Truth

New member
what makes you think so? There is nothing in the NT about that. Nothing in the the chapters on the 2nd coming in ordinary language: Rom 2, 8, 2 Tim 4, I Cor 15, 2 Pet 3, Heb 9.

Look at Lk 18 about leaving all things for the kingdom. Why would you do that if a kingdom was like something out of Judaism? Why would you then get 100x those things IN THIS AGE if you do forsake all?

Rom 11:26 is not about this at all. it is about justification from sins but it is not about a restoration of Israel.

That's why Acts 3 is referring to the restoration of ALL THINGS--the NHNE.

All Israel will be saved is about the Jews not being cut off and hardened forever.

They have a chance now, as everyone else does, to hear the truth and believe, and so be saved. All Israel is about all true believers being saved, not about everyone of some ethnic distinction.
 

God's Truth

New member
Because there is no united kingdom of the two sticks (Judah & Israel) yet.
But there will be.
It's an oath God will keep.

Those saved have the kingdom of heaven inside them.

We receive the kingdom of heaven when we receive the Holy Spirit. We recieve the Holy Spirit when we are saved.

The time came to receive the kingdom of heaven when John the baptizer came, for we must repent of our sins to be saved and receive the kingdom of heaven.

See Matthew 17:11-12.

Mark 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent, and believe the gospel.

Ephesians 1:10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

(That is about Jesus appearing the first time.)

Jesus says all things are restored, see Matthew 17:11-12; and Mark 9:12. David’s fallen tent is restored see Acts 15:16.

Jesus came fulfilled what was written.
Read Amos 9:11-12.

Matthew 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.'

When people come to Jesus in faith, they are being restored. Jesus is at the right hand of the Father interceding for us, he lives to intercede for us. We are being reconciled unto God. The ministry of the Apostles is the ministry of RECONCILIATION. See 2 Corinthians 5:18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:

Hebrews 7:25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Hebrews 9:24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Romans 8:34 Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.


This is now:

Revelation 21:4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." 5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true." 6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.…

This is now:

Revelation 21:7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.

Romans 8:14
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Romans 8:16
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.


This is now:

Revelation 21:6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.…

John 7:37 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.


Jesus said he came to fulfill. Jesus did what he came to do.

Jesus said it was finished.


Luke 24:44
He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

Luke 22:37
It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

John 4:34
"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

John 17:4
I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do.


John 19:30 When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
One must understand that the true 'Israel' is Jesus and he did restore the kingdom.
Scripture is replete with the profetic proclamations of the Messiah coming as a suffering servant AND as a conquering king.
They were not expecting it to happen "spiritually".
They were expecting it to happen literally, physically, and historically.


His first coming as a suffering servant has happened, literally, physically, historically.


When He comes as a conquering king, it will also happen literally, physically, and historically.
 

God's Truth

New member
Scripture is replete with the profetic proclamations of the Messiah coming as a suffering servant AND as a conquering king.
They were not expecting it to happen "spiritually".
They were expecting it to happen literally, physically, and historically.


His first coming as a suffering servant has happened, literally, physically, historically.


When He comes as a conquering king, it will also happen literally, physically, and historically.

Jesus is a conquering King.

He is seated at the right hand of the Father.

Jesus CONQUERED death and the devil.
 

God's Truth

New member
Jesus is the conquering King.

1 Corinthians 15:55 "Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Because there is no united kingdom of the two sticks (Judah & Israel) yet.
But there will be.
It's an oath God will keep.


That was a picture of non Jews, which Romans 9 says has taken place. There is no need for such an event, and it could never happen in isolation; it would have to happen in a theocracy in the land of Judea, which is not going to be the case.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
All Israel will be saved is about the Jews not being cut off and hardened forever.

They have a chance now, as everyone else does, to hear the truth and believe, and so be saved. All Israel is about all true believers being saved, not about everyone of some ethnic distinction.


But he did say that the Israel he was refering to was a different entity all through 9-11.
 
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