B57 and his protege Nanja are Calvinist fanatics.
Does Calvinism Make God Unjust?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
I highly doubt AMR or Nang would give B57s conclusions a second glance.
A completely pointless question.
If you all actually understood Calvinism, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now. Robert Pate makes the same threads with the same claims over and over and over.
And
You haven't made an argument at all. You've merely spoken a platitude that doesn't really hold anything against Calvinism.
Calvinists always come up with the same old rationalization, "You don't understand Calvinism." All that needs to be known about Calvinism is a click away on the Internet. That rationalization doesn't hold water.
Why don't you actually go read it right, or read the proper theology. Because you all's conclusions of Calvinism is laughable.
:loser:
Yeah, that's what I thought-
I can school you all on Calvinism, don't act like you really know it's theology when you're really just against it because the Reformation threatens your contemporary nonsense.
No it is not a pointless question!
The point is that it is precisely what Calvinism teaches and I can prove it.
So, I ask you again, If Calvinism teaches that God predestines people to Hell before they are born, would you reject it?
Don't be scared! It's a very simple question. Would you or not?
I've been debating Calvinism for decades and only recently has Calvinists begun this "you don't know what you're talking about" tactic. It's idiotic.
Every claim I make about Calvinist doctrine I can back up with fully referenced quotes both from modern Calvinists as well as original source documents.
Of course, that doesn't stop Calvinists from continuing to make the claim which only means that it is nothing but a dishonest debate tactic. Calvinists are liars on top of being blasphemers.
I've responded to what has been said on this thread. And while my comments may not have included any formal arguments, they certainly have included arguments. Put into a more formal format the argument would go something like this...
- Presmise A1: Punishing people for the sins of their ancestors (or any sin that they did not choose to commit themselves) would be unjust, by definition. [Definiton of justice]
- Premise A2: The Calvinist's god punishes people for sins of their ancestors. [Not in dispute - stated plainly by Calvin himself as well as AMR on this very thread.]
- Conclusion A: Therefore, the Calvinist's god is unjust. [Law of Contradiction]
- Premise B1: The God of the Bible explicitly states that He hates the whole idea of punishing people for the sins of their ancestor and says that is the soul that sins who will die and commands the people stop saying otherwise. [Ezekiel 18]
- Premise A2: The Calvinist's god punishes people for sins of their ancestors. [Not in dispute. Stated plainly by Calvin himself as well as AMR on this very thread.]
- Conclusion B: Therefore, the Calvinist's god is not the God of the Bible. [Law of Contradition]
- Premise C1: The God is the Bile is the only God that actually exists. [Not in dispute - by anyone on this thread.]
- Premise C2 : The Calvinist's god is not the God of the Bible.[Conclusion B]
- Conclusion C: Therefore, the Calvinist's god does not exist. {Law of Identity]
So, there you go! Three formal arguments. All of which (and more) was implicit in my previous posts on this thread. I dare you to debate them.
Resting in Him,
Clete
-The people you are talking to on this thread are double predestinarian.
-God punishes reprobates for the sins of their reprobate ancestors. They are doubly cursed, which is why God chastised by the tribe.
It doesn't apply to the elect.
You've been on this site since 2003, and like others who have been here forever, your opposition to Calvinism is based on a fundamentally flawed perception of it from the start. I see how you all do- repeating the same old nonsense over and over and over again.
:dizzy: Any believer can break a family curse (Pr 31:28).
Since you apparently have low perception, let me resize it:
-The people you are talking to on this thread are double predestinarian.
-God punishes reprobates for the sins of their reprobate ancestors. They are doubly cursed, which is why God chastised by the tribe.
It doesn't apply to the elect...
Unlike you, I can defend my doctrine.
Calvinism claims that there is no potentiality in God, that God cannot become but simply is, that God is pure actuality. (It's not just Calvinism but all of what is known as Classical Christian Theism teaches this.)
Do you agree with that doctrine?
If not, you are not a Calvinist.
If so, please explain to us all what the following, rather obscure, passage of scripture means...
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Resting in Him,
Clete
beloved57
Well-known member
Is it Calvin you're referring too?
“God is moved to mercy for no other reason but that he wills to be merciful.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 8)
“… predestination to glory is the cause of predestination to grace, rather than the converse.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 9)
“Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christia/n Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)
“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)
“… predestination to glory is the cause of predestination to grace, rather than the converse.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 9)
“Therefore, those whom God passes over, he condemns; and this he does for no other reason than that he wills to exclude them from the inheritance which he predestines for his own children.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christia/n Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 1)
“We cannot assign any reason for his bestowing mercy on his people, but just as it so pleases him, neither can we have any reason for his reprobating others but his will.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 22, Paragraph 11)
Or is it AMR, the "Professor" of Reformed Theology that you meant?
Before they were born all existed in the loins of Adam. Adam failed in his probation to "do this and live" under the Covenant of Works. While in his loins we all sinned just as if we were there with Adam in the Garden. Who then has claim to mercy? No one. Thanks be to God that He extends mercy to His fallen children by setting His preference upon an amount no man can number for salvation via His Covenant of Grace. We are born sinners, Robert, and sin because we are sinners. We are not born morally neutral and become sinners by sinning.
See also post 26 of THIS THREAD.
Maybe it was R.C. Sproul you meant!...
In the Reformed view God from all eternity decrees some to election and positively intervenes in their lives to work regeneration and faith by a monergistic work of grace. To the non-elect God withholds this monergistic work of grace, passing them by and leaving them to themselves. - "“Double” Predestination" by R.C. Sproul
So God is only unjust to "reprobates" - GOT IT!!
I'll be saving this quote too!
I've been here much longer than that. The 2003 date is generated because of a previous update to the software. And I've debated Calvinists since before I ever knew this website existed (although not as effectively).
Regardless, you can claim I don't know what I'm talking about all you like. Saying it doesn't make it so. I can quote all the Calvinists you want any time you like. Which Calvinist do you think has it right? I'll quote him teaching the exact same blasphemy that all the other ones teach. I've never found one - not a single one - that denies any of it - including you.
Resting in Him,
Clete
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The reason you aren't on my ignore list is because you want to be.
It's fun watching you squirm and make a fool of yourself.
It's called 'immutability', who St. Augustine himself proposed.
God gives reprobates over to their sins so that it is exclusive only to true believers.
That's what's really being said there- you just don't understand the language of Calvinism. It's all upon the basis of predestination, in which God decided from the beginning how He would conduct humanity.
Calvin states: "Augustine does not disagree with this when he teaches that is a faculty of the reason and the will to choose good with the assistance of grace; evil, when grace is absent"
Reformed doctrine is based on Augustinian theology, which was carried on by many theologians from the 4th century on. The Catholic Church went to it's own favorable notions despite making several of these men saints, which was one part in many things which gave the reformers theological ammo against Rome in the first place.
The apostles and early Christians were Calvinistic in their belief :wave:
popsthebuilder
New member
Being judged by sin and being judged by works is the same.
One can work sin, most do.
Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk
Notice how bedeviled doesn't show what he claims the scripture says.
Genesis 3
10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”
12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”
13 And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
Adam was commanded to not eat from that tree, and he did.
beloved57
Well-known member