ECT Do you you believe that men are proven saved by what they do?

Livelystone

New member
No. He, as a human, was in union with His Father per John 17. Ergo, His will and the Father's will were in complete agreement. In that sense we can say Jesus was proven by what God did FROM Him [intimacy here]...There was never a need to consult His Father with one exception, His death..

Jesus knew and banked His very existence on the "written word" of the OT scriptures. He said that. I didn't. That is how important they are to us who are born again.

I hope you will search this through before dismissing it as error on my part.

It is not a matter of me dismissing your opinion as in error but proving you to be in error through the Word of God

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know


Fair enough?
 

Cross Reference

New member
It is not a matter of me dismissing your opinion as in error but proving you to be in error through the Word of God

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did *by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know


Fair enough?

Indeed! "A man approved of God", says it all.

*By = "From", to my understanding __ unless you wish to split hairs.

Build on that understanding as a "Plumbline" to see yourself as He sees you. [us]
 

Livelystone

New member
Indeed! "A man approved of God", says it all.

*By = "From", to my understanding __ unless you wish to split hairs.

Build on that understanding as a "Plumbline" to see yourself as He sees you. [us]

CR,

It is always God who does the miracle no matter who presents the petition to God or is the conduit

Look at what Paul says about it,

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Same goes with Steven who the Bible said did the miracles because he was full of faith

Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people

Stephen could no more work a miracle without the Holy Spirit of God in him than could Jesus whom the fulness of the Father lived within

Faith is not just how much you believe but how much of what you believe is the truth because Christ in us (the Spirit of God in us) consist only of truth. Consequently, because we are now moving from the 2000 year church age and into the age of perfection, perfection in our knowledge is being required of us. Therefore, what worked before in many churches whose doctrines were not the absolute truth of God no longer gets the job done today! Furthermore, until they repent of false doctrines and learn the truth they will not see another miracle before their foundational understanding of Christ in them is the truth of Heb. 6:1-2 KJV.

Case in point; A Pentecostal gathering I had recently returned to for the third and final time before recently leaving again was overseen by a Pastor who had witnessed miracles in the past. In the last few months he had developed a painful bone spur on his foot that was not responding to any of the prayers by Him and church for a length of time I would say to be at least two months.

During the last Sunday sermon of his that I witnessed he mentioned he was still counting on God healing him despite nothing happening as of yet. After he said this a Jamaican woman who has a heart for God but the same erroneous doctrines as her pastor speaks up and says "God is still going to heal you"

Her outburst of faith moved my heart at the same time I could hear in my spirit it would move God as well as long as it was petitioned for by someone worshiping in truth

So I prayed and asked God if He in His mercy and grace would accept this woman's faith along with my knowledge of the truth together as being done through two persons hand in hand and in agreement with the truth of God, would He please heal the Pastor's foot?

The miracle was granted immediately (according to the pastor) allowing me to repay a bad thing he done a week earlier to me, with a blessing from God being done for him but through me and the conviction of the Jamaican woman.

All it takes for a miracle is someone worshipping in truth because Him in us is totally dependent on how much we know of the truth. This is why the first century church did the miracles they did because the Apostles taught the truth and only the truth,

So I continue to say, when the church returns to worshipping in truth, miracles being done by God will pass through those persons worshipping in truth allowing them to heal the sick just as Jesus has commanded us to do.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
 
Last edited:

revpete

New member
Not so! The Word became vulnerable human flesh. Ego, the Word laid aside the Divinity of Himself that a HUMAN, sinlessly born could be tempted and tried in all ways as Adam was. Adam failed the test given him. Jesus did not, to become the Author of our salvation. The power Jesus received was always in promise form. By His obedience was He rewarded with power. God foreknew Jesus from before the foundation of the world that He could trust him with His glory.



Do you really want to argue with any of that?



Hi CR,

A question: If The Lord laid aside His Divinity in the days of His flesh then wouldn't He have been guilty of sinning when He accepted worship of Thomas when he addressed Him as Lord and God, thus contravening the first commandment? Jn 20:28.

Pete 👤
 

Cross Reference

New member
Hi CR,

A question: If The Lord laid aside His Divinity in the days of His flesh then wouldn't He have been guilty of sinning when He accepted worship of Thomas when he addressed Him as Lord and God, thus contravening the first commandment? Jn 20:28.

Pete 👤



Hi Rev!
Thomas called Jesus Lord and God after the fact of His glorification. I am sure you know that from John 20 but, review it and get it settled.
 

revpete

New member
Hi Rev!

Thomas called Jesus Lord and God after the fact of His glorification. I am sure you know that from John 20 but, review it and get it settled.


Hi,

Yes but wasn't our Lord worshipped before that: Matt 14:33; 4:10. Notice that the same word is used in Ch 14 as when our Lord informs satan in the wilderness that "The Lord God" is the only one that should be worshipped. προσκυνέω {pros-koo-neh'-o}. This word is used 54 times in the NT. Jesus was worshipped as an infant and other places.

Pete 👤
 

chrysostom

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
what can be proven?
and
who is saved?
is everyone saved?
I don't think so
so
what we do must make the difference
what Jesus did made this possible
 

Cross Reference

New member
Hi,

Yes but wasn't our Lord worshipped before that: Matt 14:33; 4:10. Notice that the same word is used in Ch 14 as when our Lord informs satan in the wilderness that "The Lord God" is the only one that should be worshipped. προσκυνέω {pros-koo-neh'-o}. This word is used 54 times in the NT. Jesus was worshipped as an infant and other places.

Pete 👤


True but, I only replied to your question re Thomas.
In response to your above, yes He was worshipped but not as being God but rather one sent by/of God, which makes more sense.
 

Cross Reference

New member
CR,

It is always God who does the miracle no matter who presents the petition to God or is the conduit

Look at what Paul says about it,

Galatians 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Same goes with Steven who the Bible said did the miracles because he was full of faith

Acts 6:8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people

Stephen could no more work a miracle without the Holy Spirit of God in him than could Jesus whom the fulness of the Father lived within

Faith is not just how much you believe but how much of what you believe is the truth because Christ in us (the Spirit of God in us) consist only of truth. Consequently, because we are now moving from the 2000 year church age and into the age of perfection, perfection in our knowledge is being required of us. Therefore, what worked before in many churches whose doctrines were not the absolute truth of God no longer gets the job done today! Furthermore, until they repent of false doctrines and learn the truth they will not see another miracle before their foundational understanding of Christ in them is the truth of Heb. 6:1-2 KJV.

Case in point; A Pentecostal gathering I had recently returned to for the third and final time before recently leaving again was overseen by a Pastor who had witnessed miracles in the past. In the last few months he had developed a painful bone spur on his foot that was not responding to any of the prayers by Him and church for a length of time I would say to be at least two months.

During the last Sunday sermon of his that I witnessed he mentioned he was still counting on God healing him despite nothing happening as of yet. After he said this a Jamaican woman who has a heart for God but the same erroneous doctrines as her pastor speaks up and says "God is still going to heal you"

Her outburst of faith moved my heart at the same time I could hear in my spirit it would move God as well as long as it was petitioned for by someone worshiping in truth

So I prayed and asked God if He in His mercy and grace would accept this woman's faith along with my knowledge of the truth together as being done through two persons hand in hand and in agreement with the truth of God, would He please heal the Pastor's foot?

The miracle was granted immediately (according to the pastor) allowing me to repay a bad thing he done a week earlier to me, with a blessing from God being done for him but through me and the conviction of the Jamaican woman.

All it takes for a miracle is someone worshipping in truth because Him in us is totally dependent on how much we know of the truth. This is why the first century church did the miracles they did because the Apostles taught the truth and only the truth,

So I continue to say, when the church returns to worshipping in truth, miracles being done by God will pass through those persons worshipping in truth allowing them to heal the sick just as Jesus has commanded us to do.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

What does union in the Father mean to you other than it being complete oneness?
 

revpete

New member
True but, I only replied to your question re Thomas.

In response to your above, yes He was worshipped but not as being God but rather one sent by/of God, which makes more sense.


Sorry, maybe I'll get the hang of this posting lark one day. Anyway, by your reply above you are saying that someone other than God can be worshipped although the same Greek word is used
{pros-koo-neh'-o} to describe worship 54 times in the NT.

Thomas addressed Jesus In the literal: God of me and Lord of me. Jesus knew exactly what Thomas was saying and doing and He accepted his worship. One who is sent by God can be a prophet or an angel, either heavenly or earthly messenger. Jesus was none of those individual things, rather He was all of them and more besides! What I am getting at is the fact that only God can be worshipped, not one who has been sent by Him, unless of course he was divine, which Jesus was and is. An angel is not and a prophet is not divine so in order for Jesus to accept worship without sinning He must be divine ie God.

Pete 👤
 

heir

TOL Subscriber
Romans 10:9-10 spells out the two requirements to receive the gift of salvation.

Meeting those two requirements is righteous.
The righteousness of God is revealed in the gospel of Christ (Romans 1:16-17 KJV). Romans 10:9-10 is not the gospel of Christ. This is: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV.
 

Cross Reference

New member
Dude, I'M NOT READING NONSENSE.. Jesus did prove for us, not Himself..

He was left alone as nothing more than a human being who knew the written word and without the manifest presence of God was tempted and tried by Satan that He, by God's standard, might shine forth in victory over sin. Jesus accomplished that to go on in His mission to reveal God as no other man could/did. In the end, He died that His followers might be enabled to carry on where He left off for the purpose of "bringing many sons unto glory".
 
Top