Did God Raise Jesus From The Dead Or Did Jesus Christ Raise Himself?

[Bard_the_Bowman]

And the scripture prove you wrong yet again Patrick jane.

Not so.

I don't think I've even seen you directly address Patrick's first passage that he mentioned. John 10:18.

(Forgive me for cutting out some of your post....I fear the length of my response will get too big.)

Acts 3:19; "Repent then and turn to God, (Not to Jesus, but to God) so that He (God) will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the Lord, and He will send Jesus, who is the Messiah that he has already CHOSEN for you.

But remember....Jesus forgave sins in Mark 2. And He is accused of blasphemy because of it because only God can forgive sins. (By the way, Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of man again in verse 10)

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.

They believed that Jesus was claiming to be God. That is why they wanted to kill him.

And yes, some people of His day believed He is God. But not really until AFTER His ultimate proof: His Resurrection.

Jesus who admits that he spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our Lord God and saviour, says in John 5: 24; "Whoever hear my words (The words that he was commanded to say) and believes in "HIM" who sent me, has eternal life.

You must believe in "HIM" who sent Jesus to inherit eternal life.

You are picking and choosing.

John 3:16 says we must believe in Jesus to have eternal life.

John 14: 24; "And the word which you hear is not mine, but THE father's who sent me. OUR Father who art in heaven, etc.

glorydaz answered this in post #'s 2 and 5.

Whose words were these in reference to the body of Jesus which had been filled by the spirit of the Lord that had descended upon him in the form of a dove?

"Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up?"

Those were Jesus' words.

If those were the words of the man Jesus, we would expect to see that Jesus raised himself from death, but if they were the words of the Lord who filled the man Jesus with his spirit and chose him to speak in his name, then they would have been the words that the Lord commanded his obedient servant Jesus to speak, and we would expect to see that it was the Lord who raised the man Jesus to life, as seen in...............

Acts 17: 31; For He (The Lord) has fixed a day in which he will judge the whole world with justice by means of a MAN he has CHOSEN. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising that MAN from death.

Acts 5: 30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you slew and hanged on a tree.

Acts 13: 30; But God raised him from the dead: and he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee, etc.

1st Corinthians 6: 14; And God has both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

2nd Corinthians 1: 9; But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead.

2nd Corinthians 4: 14; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and bring us with you into his presence.

And in John 20: 17; Jesus said to Mary Magdalene; "Go to my brothers and tell them that I am ascending to him who is my Father and their Father, my God and their God.

You haven't addressed Patrick's original verse yet.

glorydaz has answered all of your statements/verses above.

Jesus is not God, Patrick.

Wrong.

Jesus is God.

He claimed to be and that is why He was put to death.

If He claimed to be God but wasn't...what do you think He was? Crazy? A Liar? Or what?

 

[meshak]

Jesus is God.

He claimed to be and that is why He was put to death.

:yawn:

 

[glorydaz]

Can a dead person raise himself?

LA

When He's God He can. All things are possible with God.

 

[glorydaz]

:yawn:

God bores Meshak. :nono:

 

[glorydaz]

God raised Jesus from the dead. There are so many scriptures that make that plain, that I see no need to list any, that is, for any serious Bible student

There ya go, Oats....covering all your bases. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. God.

 

[glorydaz]

Good point. And when he appears we will be just like him and see him as he is.

Beloved, now we are children of God and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is. (1 John 3:2)

Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren... (Hebrews 2:17)​

Well, we will have a spiritual body, but we won't be "just" like Him.

He did return to His former glory after all.

John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.​

 

[glorydaz]

If your God can die you've the wrong God.


Sent from my iPad using TOL

Lucky for us He had taken on the form of a servant when He became flesh and dwelt among us.

 

[steko]

The big part of your problem is that you believe Christ did not completely die.

You also believe other men do not die when they die.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

[keypurr]

Depends on what you mean by "dead".

For most people, a human death is the separation of the human soul from a human body.

In that case, yes. A dead person can raise Himself....if He has the power to do so.

Only God has that power. So Jesus is God according to John 10:18.

If your meaning of death is "to cease to exist"....then no. A dead person can't.

But I haven't heard of much evidence that shows death means "to cease to exist" and plenty that the human spirit lives on.

What is the state of the Dead?

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Psa 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
Psa 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.

All will be raised

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurre2ction of damnation.

 

[glorydaz]

Let's agree Jesus raised himself.

According to Jesus, who gave (Jesus) the power to do so?

Matt.28:18 ALL authority in heaven and earth has been GIVEN to me.

Actually, Christ IS the power of God, so He gave it to Himself.

1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.​

 

[keypurr]

It is pretty clear from Scripture that Jesus Himself is the Son of Man:

Matthew 8:20, Matthew 9:6, Matthew 11:19, Matthew 12:8, Matthew 12:40, ..and more.

In each of these verses Jesus is referring to Himself as the Son of Man.

Matthew 16:13 seems crystal clear about that:

"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Who do men say that "I", "the Son of man", am?

That's pretty clear.



Untrue. It was Jesus, the person Jesus, who spoke those words.

You are making Jesus sound possessed again. That just isn't true.

The son of man came down from above, Jesus was born. The Son of Man is the logos that came to Jesus as a dove.

 

[keypurr]

Actually, Christ IS the power of God, so He gave it to Himself.

1 Corinthians 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.​

God gave his express image the fullness of his Power and Wisdom at his anointing. Acts 10:38.

 

[glorydaz]

The big part of your problem is that you believe Christ did not completely die.

You also believe other men do not die when they die.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It might seem that way, but we just put off this natural body and are given a new spiritual body.

1 Cor. 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.​

 

[glorydaz]

Hi Jamie.

You added a word in your comments that I don't think is in the Scripture verses you quoted.

You added the word "just".

You said "...we will be just like him...".

But I don't think that is true because the verses don't say that.

They say "like" him.

In other words, we will be like Him but not "just" like Him. There will be differences.

Namely, that Jesus is God and the best we can ever hope to be are perfected human beings.

Hey, you beat me to it. Great catch!!!

 

[glorydaz]

That is a very strong opinion.

Your error is that is does address John 10:18 quite directly. That is, unless you consider John 10:18 the only valid scripture on this subject.

If that was the only verse on this subject in scripture, then your point would have some validity, but to willfully ignore the many verses that tell us that God raised Jesus from the dead is foolhardy.

If a person is willing to meet the two conditions given in Romans 10:9 in order to be saved they must acknowledge, that is believe in their heart that

a. Jesus raised himself

b. God raised Jesus from the dead.

What truth must a person believe in their heart to be saved according to Romans 10:9?

Same thing, Oats. The LORD our God is ONE LORD.

 

[glorydaz]

God gave his express image the fullness of his Power and Wisdom at his anointing. Acts 10:38.

I can see you haven't given up writing your own version of the Bible, Keypurr. You really should turn to the Lord before it's too late. None of us are getting any younger.

 

[marhig]

John 10:18 KJV -

John 10:18

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

And then there's this

John 17:1

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: AS THOU HAST GIVEN HIM POWER OVER ALL FLESH, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW THEE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Jesus had the power because the father, who is God gave him the power. And God gave him the commandment to lay down his life, and Jesus obeyed him. So God is also the God of Christ Jesus.

 

[patrick jane]

John 10:18

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

And then there's this

John 17:1

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: AS THOU HAST GIVEN HIM POWER OVER ALL FLESH, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW THESE THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Jesus had the power because the father, who is God gave him the power. And God gave him the commandment to lay down his life, and Jesus obeyed him. So God is also the God of Christ Jesus.

You need some study in the Trinity doctrine

 

[marhig]

You need some study in the Trinity doctrine

And why would i need to do that, seeing as it's not biblical?

We are not told in the Bible, that we are to study any trinity doctrine, but to believe that Jesus Christ is the son of the living God, and believe in the gospel that is from God and preached by his son. And I do believe in him and the gospel! And I know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent!

The father, who is God clearly gives Christ Jesus the power to do all things, and Jesus also said that without the father he could do nothing! And that the father is greater than he. And that is because the father is the God, father and head of Christ.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

And why would i need to do that, seeing as it's not biblical?

We are not told in the Bible, that we are to study any trinity doctrine, but to believe that Jesus Christ is the son of the living God, and believe in the gospel that is from God and preached by his son. And I do believe in him and the gospel! And I know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent!

The father, who is God clearly gives Christ Jesus the power to do all things, and Jesus also said that without the father he could do nothing! And that the father is greater than he. And that is because the father is the God, father and head of Christ.

Amen.