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Creationist are losing the battle in the world wide hysteria over covid-19.

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tieman55

New member
The battle at issue is clearly defined: Is God's creation good or not? And so far, the creationists are not even present on the field of battle.

Until the covid-19 foolishness came to the world, I had no idea just how many people, sadly, live in fear of getting sick. And it seems to me that most all of the fear is attributed to something that God gets the blame for.

Now, the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord, I get that and It is without doubt a truism. But I am not talking about salvation or judgement, I am referring to what God has made. We can see and we have been told by God Himself that creation is good. But christian after christian equivocate as to whether creation is good, it is an untenable position for the church.

Of course, I am not talking about things that are seen, like alligators, spiders and snakes as no one that I know of is cowering in fear over those created crawling creatures. And I have never ever ran across a single person in my life that thinks God was cursing the earth and man by making all those creepy crawlers. I am talking about the unseen foundations of life on earth.

My world view has changed by witnessing the delusions that have been conjured up in the advent of covid-19. I just can’t believe how many people are freaked out over something that God created.

The fear is mind boggling and for me, life changing. But the most disturbing aspect of it is . . . that Christians seem to be the most cautious, and the most in fear. Christian’s on TOL are reluctant to even acknowledge that God's creation is good, it’s tragic.

While creation scientists are out beating the dead horse of evolution, again and again, almost every Christian that I know is afraid of what God has created. I never saw this disbelief in Christians until now, perhaps you didn’t either?

What is the solution? That is easy . . . we need to make the case to Christian’s, unequivocally, that God’s creation is, exactly like He said . . . good.

At this moment, it seems to me that, the "christian" argument against God’s creation being good, is that: His creation was incomplete and or He needed to add to creation as part of a curse. Both in my opinion are ridicules’ but maybe I am missing something. So, I want to put out quickly why I see those suppositions as foolish.

1st Was creation incomplete?

It says, about as clearly as it can be said, in the Bible, that God rested after finishing His creation. Then it says, just as clearly, that God looked at His creation (which I love) and said it was good. One or both of those declarative statements has to be a figure of speech if you’re saying that He created more things latter on.

God, rightly so, made a big deal out of His creation, and now some are postulating that He creates again without saying a thing? That doesn’t ring true to me at all. And personally, I have a problem with God creating bad things, He can do it, but I don’t see Him doing it and then remaining silent as to the nature of those bad things.

God’s creation of life is exponentially more abundant at the microscopic level then it is in the observable spectrum, and Christian’s want to say that some or all of the microscopic world was an after thought or a curse? It is ridicules.

Realistically we know that life is absolutely unsustainable without its microscopic foundation. And that foundation is intertwined in irreducibly complex manners, it could not be an afterthought. Each individual part could not exist apart from one another. They complement and complete each other.in an extremely complex matrix of complex workings that boggles the mind.

2nd Are viruses part of a curse?

God told Adam and Eve exactly what their individual curses were. I mean it is extraordinary just how much detail our Father gave Adam and Eve (us) on their (our) curses. God is a good Father and any curse/punishment that He would decide on for His children, would be up front and well known. A “secrete curse” is in no way in the character of a good father. And the “secrete curse” that many a Christian allude to (viruses), didn’t work . . . as Adam lived for close to 1000 years! No microscopic curse caused any early death for him or his progeny, before the flood.

One of the foundational problems with people’s belief that viruses are bad, along with the failure of the Christian creationist, is that we only hear about the viruses that seem, on a knee jerk reaction level, to be bad. We never hear about the overwhelming number of good viruses. This is a problem that starts with the misnomer of our “immune system.”

We have a system of white blood cells designed by God that is far more like a “fire wall” in your computer than it is an “immune system”. In that it is far more important what the white cells let into our bodies than what they keep out. A name I like is God’s “white fire wall” or just "whitewall". That image paints a much better picture of what our white cells do for us. Our so called immune system is more about letting the good stuff in and far less about keeping the bad stuff out . . . because there is far more good in creation and very little bad.

There are countless viruses and ten's of thousand of different strains of bacteria. We know next to nothing about most of them and how they interact with our white cells. But we do know that our whitewall is not as good as Adam and Eve’s whitewall would have been. Entropy is likely one reason for our whitewall's decline, although I don’t think that is a major part of its decline. I attribute any minor decline in our whitewall’s ability to do a perfect job, to the following: Entropy, overuse of antibiotics, overuse of “sanitizers”, over regulated food chain, lack of physical stress, and the readily availability of good viruses.

Article on point: https://www.pnas.org/content/114/7/1433

I think the above article is worth reading, but specifically there are two quotes that I will pull.

Pull Quote 1. Sally Bloomfield, regarding white blood cells.

“It's not about just learning what to attack, but learning what to tolerate.”—Sally Bloomfield

Pull Quote 2. Clean vs. sterile.

. . . “some experts now speak of “targeted hygiene”—eliminating the spread of pathogens while promoting steps to restore a diverse microbiome. For example, one can teach children to wash their hands after handling raw chicken but also encourage them to play outside in the dirt. “If your child has been out in the garden and comes in with slightly grubby hands, I, personally, would let them come in and munch a sandwich without washing,” says Rook.

Sanitizers are not good for everyday life, antibiotics have not always been needed, but viruses have always been needed. Clean is good sterile is not.

Another reason that viruses had to have been created during creation. Viruses are much more interactive with bacteria then they are with DNA. These symbiotic relations are known as micro and macrophages and are well known and appear to be mandatory for a healthy microscopic life.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK8423/


The interaction between, bacteria, viruses, and the whitewall are not well understood, yet they have worked almost flawlessly in our past . . . and Christians today say it is probably a result of a curse? I don’t get it.

WARNING, WARNING, WARNING . . . Junk viruses, are coming to the creationist near you. Just like junk DNA . . . when a “scientist” comes across a virus that they have no idea why it exists, they are going to say it must be a “junk” virus . . . LOL. It is predictable and comical.

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-defense-viruses-harmless-beneficial.html

I am in no way a creationist, not because I don’t believe in creation, as I know it is true. I just don’t like beating the dead horse of evolution. In my opinion it is not necessary to convince people of creation . . . all one needs to do is look around, creation could not be more obvious. In my opinion the much more important argument at hand is to convince Christians that His creation, was and is good.
 

ffreeloader

Well-known member
What do you expect to happen in a world of sin and outright rebellion against God? Of course Christians are going to lose the argument. But what does that matter? Intellectual arguments have never changed hearts from rebellious to being one with God. They never will either.
 

tieman55

New member
What do you expect to happen in a world of sin and outright rebellion against God? Of course Christians are going to lose the argument. But what does that matter? Intellectual arguments have never changed hearts from rebellious to being one with God. They never will either.

The point that I am trying to make is that Christians and their leaders are afraid of God's creation.

Creationist need to claim victory in the evolution debate, as it was won over 40 years ago, and start convincing Christians that God's creation is all good. Maybe they will convince many others, along the way, in the truth of creation? God's word never returns void!

Another thing that makes me sick, is when Christians and their leaders equivocate on death, by saying Oh Oh , now one death is too many! It is sicking! (and that is not a figure of speech) Everybody dies. Death and taxes! What Christians should say is "One unprepared death is too many, so be prepared, no one gets out alive."
 

Lon

Well-known member
That is one of the dumbest things that I've ever heard.

He's got a few threads. His theory is that Adam and Eve had every virus and that they were beneficial, etc. He needs somebody to pitch all these things to before he tries to post it all on the www because he needs somebody to reel him in. Maybe send him over to PJ's website to discuss flat earth or something.... :think:
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
The battle at issue is clearly defined: Is God's creation good or not? And so far, the creationists are not even present on the field of battle.

Until the covid-19 foolishness came to the world, I had no idea just how many people, sadly, live in fear of getting sick. And it seems to me that most all of the fear is attributed to something that God gets the blame for.

Now, the beginning of wisdom is the fear of the Lord, I get that and It is without doubt a truism. But I am not talking about salvation or judgement, I am referring to what God has made. We can see and we have been told by God Himself that creation is good. But christian after christian equivocate as to whether creation is good, it is an untenable position for the church.

Of course, I am not talking about things that are seen, like alligators, spiders and snakes as no one that I know of is cowering in fear over those created crawling creatures. And I have never ever ran across a single person in my life that thinks God was cursing the earth and man by making all those creepy crawlers. I am talking about the unseen foundations of life on earth.

My world view has changed by witnessing the delusions that have been conjured up in the advent of covid-19. I just can’t believe how many people are freaked out over something that God created.

The fear is mind boggling and for me, life changing. But the most disturbing aspect of it is . . . that Christians seem to be the most cautious, and the most in fear. Christian’s on TOL are reluctant to even acknowledge that God's creation is good, it’s tragic.

While creation scientists are out beating the dead horse of evolution, again and again, almost every Christian that I know is afraid of what God has created. I never saw this disbelief in Christians until now, perhaps you didn’t either?

What is the solution? That is easy . . . we need to make the case to Christian’s, unequivocally, that God’s creation is, exactly like He said . . . good.

At this moment, it seems to me that, the "christian" argument against God’s creation being good, is that: His creation was incomplete and or He needed to add to creation as part of a curse. Both in my opinion are ridicules’ but maybe I am missing something. So, I want to put out quickly why I see those suppositions as foolish.

1st Was creation incomplete?

It says, about as clearly as it can be said, in the Bible, that God rested after finishing His creation. Then it says, just as clearly, that God looked at His creation (which I love) and said it was good. One or both of those declarative statements has to be a figure of speech if you’re saying that He created more things latter on.

God, rightly so, made a big deal out of His creation, and now some are postulating that He creates again without saying a thing? That doesn’t ring true to me at all. And personally, I have a problem with God creating bad things, He can do it, but I don’t see Him doing it and then remaining silent as to the nature of those bad things.

God’s creation of life is exponentially more abundant at the microscopic level then it is in the observable spectrum, and Christian’s want to say that some or all of the microscopic world was an after thought or a curse? It is ridicules.

Realistically we know that life is absolutely unsustainable without its microscopic foundation. And that foundation is intertwined in irreducibly complex manners, it could not be an afterthought. Each individual part could not exist apart from one another. They complement and complete each other.in an extremely complex matrix of complex workings that boggles the mind.

2nd Are viruses part of a curse?

God told Adam and Eve exactly what their individual curses were. I mean it is extraordinary just how much detail our Father gave Adam and Eve (us) on their (our) curses. God is a good Father and any curse/punishment that He would decide on for His children, would be up front and well known. A “secrete curse” is in no way in the character of a good father. And the “secrete curse” that many a Christian allude to (viruses), didn’t work . . . as Adam lived for close to 1000 years! No microscopic curse caused any early death for him or his progeny, before the flood.

One of the foundational problems with people’s belief that viruses are bad, along with the failure of the Christian creationist, is that we only hear about the viruses that seem, on a knee jerk reaction level, to be bad. We never hear about the overwhelming number of good viruses. This is a problem that starts with the misnomer of our “immune system.”

We have a system of white blood cells designed by God that is far more like a “fire wall” in your computer than it is an “immune system”. In that it is far more important what the white cells let into our bodies than what they keep out. A name I like is God’s “white fire wall” or just "whitewall". That image paints a much better picture of what our white cells do for us. Our so called immune system is more about letting the good stuff in and far less about keeping the bad stuff out . . . because there is far more good in creation and very little bad.

There are countless viruses and ten's of thousand of different strains of bacteria. We know next to nothing about most of them and how they interact with our white cells. But we do know that our whitewall is not as good as Adam and Eve’s whitewall would have been. Entropy is likely one reason for our whitewall's decline, although I don’t think that is a major part of its decline. I attribute any minor decline in our whitewall’s ability to do a perfect job, to the following: Entropy, overuse of antibiotics, overuse of “sanitizers”, over regulated food chain, lack of physical stress, and the readily availability of good viruses.

Article on point: https://www.pnas.org/content/114/7/1433

I think the above article is worth reading, but specifically there are two quotes that I will pull.

Pull Quote 1. Sally Bloomfield, regarding white blood cells.

“It's not about just learning what to attack, but learning what to tolerate.”—Sally Bloomfield

Pull Quote 2. Clean vs. sterile.

. . . “some experts now speak of “targeted hygiene”—eliminating the spread of pathogens while promoting steps to restore a diverse microbiome. For example, one can teach children to wash their hands after handling raw chicken but also encourage them to play outside in the dirt. “If your child has been out in the garden and comes in with slightly grubby hands, I, personally, would let them come in and munch a sandwich without washing,” says Rook.

Sanitizers are not good for everyday life, antibiotics have not always been needed, but viruses have always been needed. Clean is good sterile is not.

Another reason that viruses had to have been created during creation. Viruses are much more interactive with bacteria then they are with DNA. These symbiotic relations are known as micro and macrophages and are well known and appear to be mandatory for a healthy microscopic life.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK8423/


The interaction between, bacteria, viruses, and the whitewall are not well understood, yet they have worked almost flawlessly in our past . . . and Christians today say it is probably a result of a curse? I don’t get it.

WARNING, WARNING, WARNING . . . Junk viruses, are coming to the creationist near you. Just like junk DNA . . . when a “scientist” comes across a virus that they have no idea why it exists, they are going to say it must be a “junk” virus . . . LOL. It is predictable and comical.

https://phys.org/news/2020-04-defens...eneficial.html

I am in no way a creationist, not because I don’t believe in creation, as I know it is true. I just don’t like beating the dead horse of evolution. In my opinion it is not necessary to convince people of creation . . . all one needs to do is look around, creation could not be more obvious. In my opinion the much more important argument at hand is to convince Christians that His creation, was and is good.

I'd like to know just what good you think the COVID 19 disease does. It kills mostly old people by the hundreds of thousands, is that what you think is good? What's good about it?

If your point had been merely that the reaction to it has been ridiculous and that the freak out over it will cause more harm than the virus ever could, then I would have agreed with that, but you seem to be suggesting that disease causing agents are good things in and of themselves. Would you then advocate that we get rid of antibiotics and go back to the times when people died of such things as getting scratched by a rusty nail? Should we flush all the hydroxychloroquine and just let people die by the millions of Malaria and needlessly suffer from things like Lupis and rheumatoid arthritis? I mean, if COVID 19 is good then so is Yersinia pestis, the cause of the Black Plague, right? If COVID 19 is good, so is Polio and Smallpox, aren't they?

If Christians are losing the debate over creationism, its because the people on our side don't know how to think things through so as to prevent themselves from saying stupid things. God did not create COVID 19! If there is anything that a Christian could say to more instantaneously cause someone to reject creationism it would be to say that God created COVID 19. COVID 19 did not even exist two years ago. It probably didn't exist even one year ago.

And yes, disease and all manner of natural death was and is part of the curse that came as a result of Adam's fall.
.
Genesis 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.
.​
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
It's funny because it's true. Atheistical Darwinialistic evolutionalists have been at the forefront of all scientific advancements for the past century or more.

This is not true. You watch too much of the Discovery Channel and believe the news too easily. But even it it were true, how does that advance your argument? Are you suggesting that viruses don't exist and that we need not deal with them or are you suggesting that the bible tells us that they exist and how to deal with them? If the latter, give me chapter and verse. If the former then should we simply ignore COVID 19 and let all the sick old people die a semi-slow, semi-miserable death?

If it's neither of those things then just what is your point? What's so good about COVID 19, Malaria, AIDS, Polio, Leprosy, Tetanus, Gingivitis, Syphilis, Cholera, Anthrax and any other infectious disease that you seem to believe were all created by God as part of His "very good" creation? What should we do about these diseases, if anything?

Leviticus 13 - 15 talks about quarantining both the sick and burning clothing with active Leprosy and what to do with people who recover from the disease as well as what to do with bodily discharges. Why on God's good Earth would they do such a thing if disease is a good thing? Did you even know Leviticus 13 existed?

Clete
 

7djengo7

New member
It's funny because it's true. Atheistical Darwinialistic evolutionalists have been at the forefront of all scientific advancements for the past century or more.

Since by "scientific advancements", all you mean is the irrational thinking that is Darwinism, you couldn't be more right! Who else but Darwin and his cheerleaders would be at the forefront of all the irrational thinking that is Darwinism? Why do you call the irrational thinking that is Darwinism, "scientific advancements"?
 
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