Creation vs. Evolution

[noguru]

No. I am assuming (or, believing without room for any exception) that God exists and that the order we see in creation, such as the identification of kinds and the position of man above all other created things that live or dwell upon the earth, speaks to God's intelligence and power.

I don't understand what you are asking here.

All I mean is that the natural world is not all there is. It would be irrational to conceive of a universe in which God does not exist knowing that God exists.

How so?

Would you say God exists and that nothing in His creation testifies to His existence?

That is not true. The Bible says that in the beginning the earth was formless and void. Some people believe this to be chaos.

I agree that science cannot disprove God's existence.

Are you saying you do not believe that the conclusion that God created the universe can be a scientific conclusion?

Not natural processes independent of God. God created everything that is "natural".

I don't know what you mean. I think you are misinterpreting when I say "order".

I haven't said no God equals chaos. There is no such thing as "no God" except in the minds of some people.

By influence I recognize people speak of both a Supernatural and a natural, or of both a Supernatural world and the world of the atheist. I am not making the natural world to be the world only for the atheist, or saying that the atheist can only experience the natural. What I am saying is that in identifying a difference between Supernatural and natural we either recognize the influence of God and the Supernatural over the natural or we posit as if we are our own gods and worthy of such a claim that God cannot have any influence over the natural, whether we believe (in) God or not. I am saying the Supernatural, namely God (and the angels), can influence the world God created, whether that name is creation or nature (which may correspond in some minds to "the natural world"). The created order in my mind includes the things we find in nature, but it also speaks to a hierarchy within the things God created, for example that angels are higher than men, or that men are to have dominion over the animals God created.

I am doing no such thing. Unless by chaos you mean a world without God.

This is where I would say simply that I am a Theist and not a Deist.

I believe we can sense or perceive more than only the natural world. That there are unseen things that we can know about, such as God.

I don't know what you mean.

You keep avoiding my direct questions. I don't have time for this game you are playing.

 

[doloresistere]

You keep avoiding my direct questions. I don't have time for this game you are playing.

That's his MO.

 

[Jacob]

You keep avoiding my direct questions. I don't have time for this game you are playing.

I am not playing a game.

 

[noguru]

I am not playing a game.

You are avoiding direct clear questions with diversionary tactics. I don't care what you call it. It is as good as a game, even if you do not intend it to be. You are demonstrating that dialogue with you is just a waste of time.

 

[Jacob]

You are avoiding direct clear questions with diversionary tactics. I don't care what you call it. It is as good as a game, even if you do not intend it to be. You are demonstrating that dialogue with you is just a waste of time.

Well, if it is any consolation I don't think dialog with you is a waste of time.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear noguru,

I KNOW God EXISTS! I've been visited by Him and also a number of angels. I've also had three visions/carried away in the Spirit, and some visits from the Holy Spirit. I can say things that I know because the Holy Spirit tells me what to say. I believed in Him before He visited me. I just took it as fact that He existed since I was 11 years old. And I was saved when I asked Jesus to come into my heart when I was 12. Ever since I was 18, I've had some incredible experiences and the Lord tells me that I am one of the two olive trees and candlesticks, standing before the God of the whole earth, and one of the two witnesses that shall come prior to Jesus' Return to share the testimony of what I've WITNESSED to others to prepare the way for His Second Coming. And that's what I do. But if I bear witness of myself, none will believe. So I will leave it to God to bear witness of me in due time, whether I have been true to Him or not true. That's what exasperates me so much is that the poor atheists do not believe in God's Creations and that He is in charge of this world. Jesus has been cut off from this earth so that the evil could come to it's highest fruition (See Dan. 9:26). That way man can get a load of what evil and Satan have to offer us, and we can then choose what kind of life we want to live: God's way or Satan's way. Do you think this is God's way going on down here on earth for the past some years?? You just don't know what is going on or where it's at. You are old school. Wait til you start learning what's real and happening at this time instead of wallowing in the evolution pit.

God Has So Much More Going On!!

Michael

:rapture:

:think:

Dear All,

What? No questions for me?? It's because you don't know one way or another, or you're thinking I'm telling the truth and that messes up your trivial pursuit game here. Repent and make yourselves ready for Jesus' Return. You're playing with fire now!

God Bless Those Whom He Will,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

You probably don't even know my story yet. The first angel that visited me proclaimed loudly and commandingly, saying, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgement is come upon all of the earth, and worship Him Who created the earth and heaven, and the seas, and the fountains of waters." This is only a bit of what has happened to me. A small piece. You'd be wiser to get ready to go.

Michael

 

[Ben Masada]

That Jesus lived, died, and rose from the dead is a fact and an objective truth.

That God created the heavens and the earth is too.

And you can't have one without the other, though you may want to examine or find yourself convinced by one or the other (first).

That Jesus rose from the dead can never be a fact and objective truth for two reasons: First because Jesus was a Jewish man and according to his Faith which was Judaism, there is no such a thing as bodily resurrection, and second there were no eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus. An empty tomb is no evidence of resurrection but that the body was removed from.

 

[doloresistere]

I am not playing a game.

If you are not playing games, then why don't you directly answer questions? Why is your communication ambiguous? Why do you go off on tangents when the subject at hand has been made clear by no guru? Is it that you just don't understand the points noguru is making?

 

[Jacob]

If you are not playing games, then why don't you directly answer questions? Why is your communication ambiguous? Why do you go off on tangents when the subject at hand has been made clear by no guru? Is it that you just don't understand the points noguru is making?

I answer with what I understand pertaining to what he is asking. I can't answer with what I don't understand.

 

[Jacob]

That Jesus rose from the dead can never be a fact and objective truth for two reasons: First because Jesus was a Jewish man and according to his Faith which was Judaism, there is no such a thing as bodily resurrection, and second there were no eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus. An empty tomb is no evidence of resurrection but that the body was removed from.

I believe in Judaism there is the expectation of people rising from the dead. But Jesus proved it. And this is the hope we have of a future resurrection for ourselves. And the desire to be counted among the righteous raised, rather than the wicked.

If you read the gospels you will see that not only was the tomb empty, but that it was empty following His resurrection.

 

[doloresistere]

I answer with what I understand pertaining to what he is asking. I can't answer with what I don't understand.

Well, it is obvious that you understand very little of what no guru is trying to tell you. It would be less frustrating for him if you would just simply say that you don't know what he is trying to say instead of answering based on your limited understanding.

 

[Jacob]

Well, it is obvious that you understand very little of what no guru is trying to tell you. It would be less frustrating for him if you would just simply say that you don't know what he is trying to say instead of answering based on your limited understanding.

I understand where you are coming from on this, but not because I understand why noguru believes I am not answering him. I am answering him. I'm just not telling him whatever it is he thinks I should tell him. And I don't know what that is.

 

[doloresistere]

I understand where you are coming from on this, but not because I understand why noguru believes I am not answering him. I am answering him. I'm just not telling him whatever it is he thinks I should tell him. And I don't know what that is.

You not only do not understand what noguru tells you, you also do not understand what I tell you. If you did understand me then you deliberately used diversionary tactics to change the subject.

 

[Jacob]

You not only do not understand what noguru tells you, you also do not understand what I tell you. If you did understand me then you deliberately used diversionary tactics to change the subject.

What tactics? I'm being straight with you that I don't know. I don't know why you say this here, and I don't know why we are no longer in discussion (noguru and I).

What did noguru tell me that I don't understand?

 

[doloresistere]

What tactics? I'm being straight with you that I don't know. I don't know why you say this here, and I don't know why we are no longer in discussion (noguru and I).

What did noguru tell me that I don't understand?

You are not being straight with me
You avoid my central point and change the subject.

 

[Jacob]

You are not being straight with me
You avoid my central point and change the subject.

What is your central point?

 

[MichaelCadry]

So I overwhelm you with something you didn't know or you're just afraid of hearing what I have to say? Your unrighteousness is showing. If you were righteous, you would have no trouble breaking ranks and commenting about my reply. Very interesting! Hope you are learning something from all of what I've shared with you so far. There is tons more. I've had more than 2 other angels speak to me during that same month. But you won't even accept what the first angel said.

Repent, for His Return Is Near,

Michael

 

[Jacob]

MichaelCadry,

I don't know who you are talking to, but I am concerned that you sense something is wrong.

Untellectual

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Untellectual,

I'm talking to all of you on this thread. It's important info that I wanted to share. Nothing is wrong though. It's really right and great!

God Bless You This Christmas and New Year's!!

Michael