Creation vs. Evolution

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MichaelCadry

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I think you might be underestimating somewhat.

Dear Stuu,

It is best to underestimate instead of overestimate.[/quote]

That's what Saul of Tarsus thought. But here we still are, nearly 2000 years later.

Yes, it was very bummed out back then. They thought Jesus would be back a lot sooner. Bless their hearts!![/quote] I will be back soon to finish answering this. I need an about to rest, because I'm spent for now and am having trouble breathing and the body aches and the chills. Hi Stuart, I'm back and feel a lot better

You seem to know a lot about this. Can you tell me what means of transport spirits use?

They can do it because God Wills It. There are made of light and energy. What do you think pumps your heart beat? How about moving a finger, etc. Just like Jesus glowed when He was transfigured. The angels exist on certain stars and planets, just waiting to help. I believe the angels can travel at the speed of light, but we will find out when we meet God.[/quote]

So this is a UFO deception conspiracy pact between your god and the devil?

Stuu, there is no conspiracy pack between them. You remember Job being tested because the devil came among the Sons of God and he said he would test him. And God let Satan do his worst and he was found lacking by far.[/quote]

And when did this happen?

I think it happened around the year 1500-2500 BC.

I don't know when it happen
ed. It happened before Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden.

It wasn't really great for me. It was pretty dull drawing pictures of fantasy stories and being expected to take them seriously. I did a lot of useful daydreaming.

Hooray!

Well your god can't have my heart at the moment, because I am still using it. But once I am done with it, it can have it and use all the benign and cheerful approach to life that is contained within it to improve its standing with humanity.

Some of that may be true...


So David Koresh is having a great time in heaven, then? He was a Jesus nut, after all.


Atheist is the kind of word that defines you in terms of Jesus nuts. I think of myself as normal, and I don't think of 'being a non-believer' in all sorts of other things. Would you call yourself an afairyist? I am sure we both are afairyists, but why would we call outselves as such. Gods aren't really there, so there is no point in specifically calling oneself a non-believer in them. Stuu, you can still go to Heaven, if you wish. God can definitely still
In other words, afariyist is a gay person. That's fine with me. Been there, done that. I know how very extremely difficult to change back to asap.

I'll have finished tonite. I'm sorry it's taken so long to read your message to me. This in one lenghty posts. Normally I would have to think twice about answering a post this long.
Kia ora is the Maori greeting we use most often.

Nga mihi nui,
Stuart
 
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Stuu

New member
Yes, it was very bummed out back then. They thought Jesus would be back a lot sooner. Bless their hearts!! I will be back soon to finish answering this. I need an about to rest, because I'm spent for now and am having trouble breathing and the body aches and the chills.
Do you get that very often?

Hi Stuart, I'm back and feel a lot better. They can do it because God Wills It. There are made of light and energy. What do you think pumps your heart beat? How about moving a finger, etc. Just like Jesus glowed when He was transfigured. The angels exist on certain stars and planets, just waiting to help. I believe the angels can travel at the speed of light, but we will find out when we meet God.
You'll have a lot to ask, I suppose. Will you ask why it killed or had killed some 24,000,000 humans?

Stuu, there is no conspiracy pack between them. You remember Job being tested because the devil came among the Sons of God and he said he would test him. And God let Satan do his worst and he was found lacking by far.
That does sound like a pact: satan has to do your god's dirty work for it.

Stuart
 

JosephR

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Do you get that very often?


You'll have a lot to ask, I suppose. Will you ask why it killed or had killed some 24,000,000 humans?


That does sound like a pact: satan has to do your god's dirty work for it.

Stuart

stuu, this is logical for you to arrive at..but the answer is God allows free will...free will is what allows bad things.. how can I be allowed to do good if you are not allowed to do evil? there would be no point....

I think Gods reason is to find people,souls, He can trust..this is the faith of God..this life is so small and short,and means allmost nothing...i think you argument might be better for determinism.
 

Hedshaker

New member
But Hedshaker, "It is written that right after this greatest of earthquakes, that the sun shall be darkened, covered by clouds. And the moon shall appear as blood (see Rev. 6:12:13). And the stars will fall from heaven.

But Michael, I have already addressed this earlier, see here:

Both earth quakes and blood moons have perfectly natural causes, though I suppose it's understandable that ancient, pre-science man would seek to make up explanations based on their religious beliefs. They didn't know any better and they were a pretty superstitious lot back then. Even comets and wot not were treated the same. They were ignorant then but there's no excuse now

What is "written" in ancient religious scriptures does not trump scientific evidence. Those authors did not have the advantage of the science that we have today so they linked natural phenomenon to their superstitions. They didn't know better then, but we do. Yet you are doing the same by ignoring modern knowledge based on sound science in favour of ancient text written by pre-science man.

There is more Hedshaker, but I am feeling under the weather today and have to go rest for awhile. I think I've got the flu or pneumonia. I sure hope not. Will try to chat a bit more tonight.

Well here's hoping you feel better soon. But please Michael, no more. I've explained this a simply as I can. Feel free to ignore the evidence and the science and the reasoning if you must, but I'm done with it.

All the best.
 

JosephR

New member
But Michael, I have already addressed this earlier, see here:



What is "written" in ancient religious scriptures does not trump scientific evidence. Those authors did not have the advantage of the science that we have today so they linked natural phenomenon to their superstitions. They didn't know better then, but we do. Yet you are doing the same by ignoring modern knowledge based on sound science in favour of ancient text written by pre-science man.



Well here's hoping you feel better soon. But please Michael, no more. I've explained this a simply as I can. Feel free to ignore the evidence and the science and the reasoning if you must, but I'm done with it.

All the best.

riddle me this batman.. who said

with the first drink of physical science a man becomes an atheist..


but at the bottom of the glass is God waiting.


tell me how anciant pre science man as you call it knew about the difference and speration of darkness and light?

ur just a bill nye convert arent you :) its ok,, i admire your thinking... its more then most do.. keep going...
 

Hedshaker

New member
riddle me this batman.. who said

with the first drink of physical science a man becomes an atheist..

Well, Google yields nothing..... but, Michael Shermer for a guess?


but at the bottom of the glass is God waiting.

I found God in an old shoe box in my hall cupboard. I knew he was in there because the box was completely empty :)


tell me how anciant pre science man as you call it knew about the difference and speration of darkness and light?

Dunno but I guess they can't be wrong about everything. Even a stopped watch tells the right time twice a day. They obviously didn't know the real cause of a blood moon though, did they?

ur just a bill nye convert arent you :) its ok,, i admire your thinking... its more then most do.. keep going...

Thanks. The stuff I've been trying to discuss with Michael is freely available to all and not that clever or difficult to understand really.

All the best :thumb:
 
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OCTOBER23

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Nobel Laureate Werner Heisenberg:

GOD Is Waiting at the Bottom of the Glass

And I am going to drink till I am full ( I added this line )
 

Stuu

New member
stuu, this is logical for you to arrive at..but the answer is God allows free will...free will is what allows bad things.. how can I be allowed to do good if you are not allowed to do evil? there would be no point....
So the whole issue resides in the definitions of the word bad. And this is where the bad of your god comes into play.

Stuart
 

Repentance

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I believe in theistic evolution.

Almost all Muslims believe in the mechanism of evolution.

Some believe in human speciation too.

But all believe that Adam was created by God's own hands as his vicegerent on earth.

Allah didn't say that he was going to start mankind when He mentioned his plan for creating Adam. He just said that He wanted a vicegerent on earth.
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
stuu, this is logical for you to arrive at..but the answer is God allows free will...free will is what allows bad things.. how can I be allowed to do good if you are not allowed to do evil? there would be no point....

I think God's reason is to find people, souls, He can trust..this is the faith of God..this life is so small and short, but it goes on forever for those whose souls are taken to Heaven and means almost nothing...i think you argument might be better for determinism.


Dear Joseph,

Thanks for helping. It seems like a Wonderful response. Can you believe how many people are ignoring God and Jesus Christ. And you can see that Israel seems to be standing alone. More about that later.

Will catch up with you in a bit. I am sick now with a cold or flu. I guess it is the flu.

This chair is killing my back tonite. So I'll get back to you. Probably about an hour from now.

Please Forgive Me, I really am going to take a pain pill. They give it to me for my plantar fasciitist and that is severe heel pain. When I go to the store, often I need a cart to get across because I can't walk the depth or length of the story (Walmart and Target). I also take for the lower back pain that I have. My chiropractor could not do anything of me so he sent me to my Dr. (his father). My only other option is surgery and my insurance for pay for it all. OK, will get going. The back pain I have is the vertabrae right next to my coccyx.

Again, Joe,

Good To Hear From You!!

God Bless You And Those Who Love You!!!

Michael
 
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MichaelCadry

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LIFETIME MEMBER
So the whole issue resides in the definitions of the word bad. And this is where the bad of your god comes into play.

Stuart


Dear Stuart,

It is about good and evil. This is how God made things, when He didn't install corporal punishment. Cain, who slew his brother, Abel, was sent out of the land he was in to become a vagabond in the earth. I can't go through with exchanging everything with you without rewriting it for you. Right now, the book is at the publisher and being edited. It may just take the month of February and then it will be ready. But what if it's not?? See, this is the way you talk with me too often. You've got little faith. Then murder became rampant, for the individual would say, surely God will forgive me too, since He forgave Abel. But worse came to worse, til upon Noah's Days, God told him that He would bring a great flood over the earth. And He got rid of all of the life on Earth except for the family of Noah. They all treated Noah like some dimwit, but as they took their last breath, maybe by then they'd believe. They had years to believe Him.

I must go Buddy!!

Much Love Coming Your Way!

Michael!

:jazz: :comeout:
 
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Mark SeaSigh

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Well, let's take a look...

The fig-wasp mutualism originated between 70 and 90 million years ago as the product of a unique evolutionary event. Since then, cocladogenesis and coadaptation on a coarse scale between wasp genera and fig sections has been supported by both morphological and molecular studies. This illustrates the tendency towards coradiation of figs and wasps. Such strict cospeciation should result in identical phylogenetic trees for the two lineages and recent work mapping fig sections onto molecular phylogenies of wasp genera and performing statistical comparisons has provided strong evidence for cospeciation at that scale.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fig_wasp

Surprise.

That was just a story. If you know of a species of mosquito alive today, that existed back then, tell us about it. That would be remarkable.

"The Velociraptor lived in the late Cretaceous Period, about 75-70 million years ago."

https://www.google.com/search?q=whe...la:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

The oldest known mosquito with an anatomy similar to modern species was found in 79-million-year-old Canadian amber from the Cretaceous.[85] An older sister species with more primitive features was found in Burmese amber that is 90 to 100 million years old.[86] Two mosquito fossils have been found that show very little morphological change in modern mosquitoes against their counterpart from 46 million years ago.[87]

https://www.google.com/search?q=whe...la:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

Tah Dah.
Modern Looking Species of Mosquitoes Existed, Before Some Dinosaurs; and they had Fully Functional Mosquito Anatomy.

Not some half Evolved Mosquito Anatomy, that was Mutating it's way into Existence.

There you have it, Proved you wrong again with your own Evol information, wikidpedia and all. LOL!!!
I honestly don't believe that the Dating Methods are Correct, but I find it funny that the Information that is considered to you to be truth says the Opposite of your own beliefs.

Evolution, is Not real; Which is Obvious when considering the Fig Wasp, or the Fact that Modern Mosquitoes Lived during the Same Period that the Raptor Lived, which evolutionists believed changed into a Turkey over a Hundred million years, but the Fossil record doesn't have any proof that they changed into Birds. So if there is no evidence that Dinosaurs Evolved into Birds and you believe also that a Mosquito or A Dragonfly Contained the Same Anatomical Features for Hundreds of Millions of Years; Then how could you also believe that an Ape turned into a Woman in 3.5 Million Years?

=M=

6F82FBADBBDD4EACB5694B4A9145D6F0.jpg


images


:sam:

Anyway;
The fact that many modern animals can be found in the Same Fossil layers as the Dinosaurs proves that Modern animals Lived with Dinosaurs.

If modern animals were living alongside the Dinosaurs, that means the Theory of Evolution is not Correct; Given the Theory of Evolution states that Animals are Constantly changing, loosing and Gaining anatomy over Time.

Isn't reason and Logic Great!!!

Given the Bible says that all animals on Earth were created in Six Days, of a Seven day Week; The Bible actually fits the Fossil Record Evidence more Closely than the theory of Evolution. If all the Animals Existed at the Same Time on this Planet, then it makes sense that they would be finding Modern animals which Still Exist today, that lived before, and During the Time of the Dinosaurs all in the Same Fossil Layers. However, if evolution is Correct and Animals are Mutating into new ones, at the Rate of which an Apelike Being would be able to become a Woman in 3 Million Years; well that doesn't fit the Evidence found in the Fossil Record.

The Point isn't that these Fossils are Believed to be Millions of Years old that is Interesting, what is interesting, is that Animals Containing all the Same anatomy that Modern ones do today, lived before the Dinosaurs; Yet Evolutionists believe that Dinosaurs Evolved into Birds.

I could go and Find you a Feather that is Preserved in Amber that is Older than a Raptor, but that probably wont impress you, Barbie, because you will just say that, "it came from a Feathered Dinosaur, which must have lived before the Raptor."; Well, I will still post the Interesting Feathers I find on the Way. What I really need is A Fossilized Chicken that is Much older than the Already Classified Birds that lived during the Time of the Dinosaurs, that will really throw a Wrench in the Theory that Dinos Turned into Chickens.

====================================

http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/dspace/handle/2246/3571

http://www.livescience.com/16069-amber-feathers-dinosaur-birds.html

mckellar10HR.jpg


220px-Confuciusornis_sanctus_mmartyniuk.png


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confuciusornis

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaurs-living-descendants-69657706/?no-ist

300px-Confuciusornis_male.jpg


The Above is a Bird, Called the "Confuciusornis";
170px-Confuciusornis_SIZE.png

It was about this Big compared to the Woman, See?
Not Huge like a Feathered Dinosaur, but small like a Bird.

The Smithsonian Link has information on the Founder, and the Bird is not a Dinosaur, but lived before some Dinosaurs even Existed, which proves that the Theory that Dinosaurs are no Longer around because they Turned into Birds is Obviously False.
It is a Bird which contains;
A Wishbone, and Feathers.

Unlike The Much younger Archaeopteryx previously mentioned by Al,
(Archaeopteryx)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeopteryx
images


this Confuciusornis Bird Contains the Same Anatomical Features that many Modern Birds do Today, such as a Wishbone. It seems that Birds are less likely to have Descended from Dinosaurs, and more likely from this Bird, which seems to contain all the Like Features that Most Modern Bird Species do Today, such as A Toothless Beak and A Wishbone.

===================================

Consider the Above Bird that Lived Before the Archaeopteryx, now consider this next Bird which also Lived before Archaeopteryx;

220px-Aurornis.jpg


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurornis

"Aurornis lived roughly 160 million years ago, roughly 10 million years prior to Archaeopteryx, which often has been described as the first bird." (Described and Said to be the First Bird By Evolutionists that is, which has obviously been Disproved given the Existence of Fossils which are of a Bird which have dated to be Much older than the Archaeopteryx. =M=)

Look at that Bird, and it lived long before the Archaeopteryx, which is what Most Evolutionists believed that Birds Descended From, and the Archaeopteryx looks far less like Modern Birds, than the Aurornis.

Fossil Chicken Found;

============================================

Now that I've Addressed you Barbie; Why don't you answer my Evolutionist Questions, they are;

Three Other simple to understand Questions;

When do you believe the First Fruit tree Formed?

What kind of Fruit was it?

How Has it Changed in the Time It's Existed, does it still look and Taste the Same?


Why Do Evolutionists Believe that Humans are the Only Animal that did not Exist Five Million Years Ago?


Shouldn't man be the Oldest Animal in the Fossil Record, Given we are the Most advanced?

That's Right, there really is Fossilized Fruit;

E4420619-Magnolia_fruit_body_and_fossil-SPL.jpg


They look just like their modern Versions.
Granted, it's easier to find fossilized Leaves that prove the Tree Type.

images


What's the Matter ash, It's not Evolving?

QGiFYYu.jpg


images


oh_evil_tree_that_does_hate_life_so.gif


==================================


MUSIC!!!

Small Axe - Bob Marley and the Wailing Wailers
 
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Mark SeaSigh

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Evolution_001-300x232.png


i-66a4ef8aff2d3617eea92caaa94f5741-pinkoski_one_eye.gif


images


atheismmakessense.jpg


=M=

images

evolution1.png

gravity-its-the-law.jpg


Evolutionists cannot tell the Difference between Science Theory, and Laws of Science?

Go Figure.

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GravityIsNotATheory.JPG


images


Thanks for Clearing that up for all those Silly Atheists and Anti-Theists out there, Isaac Newton.

Yes, that's Right everybody
; Evolution is a theory, Not a Scientific Theory, and that is because there is no Evidence for the Theory's Credibility.

There are no Observable Natural Processes, that would ever lead to Mutation through reproduction producing a New Form of Functional Anatomical Structure or capable of Creating New Functional Code In the Genome of any Given Creature, and there is no evidence that this Has ever happened in the Past, or Presently, In the Fossil Record, Nor in Observable Nature... This is why Evolution Could Never be the Process by which the Various Forms of life that we Share this Planet with Came to Exist.

A Genome of Any Given Creature, can only mutate so much, before the Creature Looses it's ability to Breed.
A Great Example of this is the Giant Panda Bear.
No New anatomy occurs during mutation, Only anatomy that already Exists in the Genome can be Gained.

If a Creature becomes so Genetically Distant from it's original Species, such as the Giant Panda Bear; It does not become a New Very Fertile Species that has never Existed before; Instead, it becomes incapable of Reproducing whatsoever, and becomes a Less Potent Version of it's original Species.

This (above) can be Observed Throughout the Animal Kingdom not just in Giant Pandas, and is Why Speciation, (The Process in Evolution Theory, by Which new Species of Animals Arise in Nature), is Impossible, and Thereby Evolution is Also an impossibility, (Given the Main Mechanism In the Theory of Evolution "Speciation", Involving New Animals Arising out of Old Ones, has Proven to have Never been Observed in the Fossil Record, nor in Nature).

If you don't believe;
Look for yourself, only Incipient Speciation has Ever been observed.

So thereby, Speciation has never been observed in nature, given the Word Incipient Means;

in·cip·i·ent
inˈsipēənt/
adjective
adjective: incipient

in an initial stage; beginning to happen or develop.
"he could feel incipient anger building up"

An initial stage, or the Beginnings of; Which means that Speciation has never been observed. They only have instances, where they think it's Starting to Happen.... LOL!!!

But don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself, True Speciation (The Major Mechanism of The Process of Evolution) has never Occurred, or been Observed;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciation

Which is why Evolution is Still a Theory, and not a Law of Science.

Law of Science = a phenomenon of nature that has been proven to invariably occur whenever certain conditions exist or are met

Gravity, or otherwise known as "the Law of Attraction", is a great example of a Scientific Law.

Theory = A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena. Most theories that are accepted by scientists have been repeatedly tested by experiments and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

Scientific Theory = A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing.

Given the Theory of Evolution, has no Evidence that backs it, there is no Data to Test with the Scientific Method.
If there is No Evidence to Test, the Theory is not Scientific, if there is no Evidence of it Actually Occurring.
It remains a Theory alone, and Not a Scientific one; Given the Definition of Theory, and Scientific Theory.
It's certainly not a Scientific Theory, given we have never Observed animals Evolving, and in order for it to become Scientific, animals must be Observed Evolving in the First Place, then the Theory is Installed in order to Theorize How the Animals Evolved, then you have a Scientific Theory of Evolution. Given Speciation has never been observed, Evolution remains a Theory. Which is why people refer to it as The Theory of Evolution, not the Scientific Theory of Evolution.

If you don't agree, feel free to Disagree; but don't stop there, go on to show me what Facts or Phenomena the Theory of Evolution even Explains, or Proves true. If you find none, should the TOE even be considered a Theory; I mean, if the Theory isn't based on any Actual Observable Evidence.

What do you say to that, Batman and Sue?

The theory of Evolution, isn't based on Evidence, it's based on Ideas and Beliefs; Which makes it a Religion.

Religion = a set of beliefs
 
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MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
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Dear Mark,

Your threads are so long that I don't dare QUOTE it. Also, what is the name of the thread I'm supposed to look for. Is it My Theological and Biological... and whatever. I can not find it and I have gone back into the box for 4 pgs. Please let me know.

God's Best Always!

Michael
 
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MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I blush at your compliment. :)

Stuart


Awww!! You don't need to get all red. Hey, thanks for waiting for me to get back to you. Yesterday, I got a little bit done and more today. I'm pretty sure I've got pneumonia, because I had it last year and the year before. I've got to get a pneumonia shot soon. It's not like I didn't try, but they were out of them. Hey, if you weren't so special, how else would you know? You've just been around the wrong people, I must admit.

I was behind on the computer work because I was sick, plus I was working on a Seventh Edition for my book. That wraps it up here. I still have to give final approval on my book, after I read it to make sure they've made the same ones. But they want to rush me, of course.

Well, you take good care Stuart, and I look forward to hearing from you as soon as you get the chance.

Ciao!!

Michael
 
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