Coronavirus, Donald Trump and Medicare for All

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Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Young people overwhelmingly disagree with Trump Gurl.

Most people my age are tools. I am blessed by God with great parents who did not let me be propagandized by your ilk. I actually know right from wrong.

Freedom and liberty are right, and socialism and government control of my life is wrong.

To me these things are self evident. Why tools and dimbos like you choose to blind yourself and choose evil, only God knows.
 

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Most people my age are tools. I am blessed by God with great parents who did not let me be propagandized by your ilk. I actually know right from wrong.

Freedom and liberty are right, and socialism and government control of my life is wrong.

To me these things are self evident. Why tools and dimbos like you choose to blind yourself and choose evil, only God knows.

 

Lon

Well-known member

Why would you call 'me' the liar instead of simply saying "the article you posted is wrong!"???
Second, it doesn't matter if health care in the U.S. is the highest, for instance, if it is the best. Insurance plays a part. "Communism" in the sense that we all pay for those who cannot, is part of the reason as well. It is never as easy as just 'affordable for all' but whether or not that care is good or not.

Third. Do this, please. Go to a fire department and ask them what they think of health care for all and ask how it 'might' be abused. My relatives work in the health care system. 4 nurses, 2 firemen, one police officer. The ones that abused Obamacare the most were the ones who didn't care if it cost anybody tens of thousands of dollars for their phone calls. I'm not saying do nothing, I'm saying that there is a huge huge difference between and ideal and what is actual. Obama, for instance, COULDN'T do it with Obamacare for eight years. It was a nightmare simply because those who can least afford it 1) Had to pay for the first time in their lives, though only one to two hundred dollars a month and 2) we still had issues with trying to make healthcare affordable. it made some insurance companies richer, and Americans and doctors/nurses poorer. Was that your 'ideal' outcome?

You can vote how you like, but you cannot make up your own facts. The bottom line is ALWAYS supply and demand. You cannot have 'free' healthcare. Canada does NOT have "Free" healthcare. Instead, you have government run programs. Our government does not run efficiently, especially under politicians who are lining their pockets,, enough to do any good with healthcare. Democrat votes ALWAYS mean more of your and my money. While you may certainly put tax pressure on the rich, the only programs that will or can work will ALWAYS be upon your and my backs (if you work). It can't (literally cannot) work any other way. Democrat policy costs us all a LOT of money and rarely do they do as good of job as the private sector can and does do. There are incentives with one, which does appeal to greed, but at least that greed provides by desire for that income: superior services that indeed do serve the public. Capitalism cannot work under any other guise than that.
 

User Name

Greatest poster ever
Banned
Why would you call 'me' the liar instead of simply saying "the article you posted is wrong!"???

For dramatic effect?

Second, it doesn't matter if health care in the U.S. is the highest, for instance, if it is the best.

Is it though? Countries With the Most Well-Developed Public Health Care Systems:
  1. Canada
  2. Denmark
  3. Sweden
  4. Norway
  5. Germany
  6. United Kingdom
  7. Japan
  8. Australia
  9. Netherlands
  10. Switzerland
I don't see the United States on that top 10 list.

Source: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...ystem?slide=12

Insurance plays a part.

Health insurance certainly does play a part--to the tune of $812 billion per year in administrative costs alone, or $2,497 per person in the U.S. -- https://time.com/5759972/health-care...trative-costs/
 

Lon

Well-known member
For dramatic effect?
:/



Is it though? Countries With the Most Well-Developed Public Health Care Systems:
  1. Canada
  2. Denmark
  3. Sweden
  4. Norway
  5. Germany
  6. United Kingdom
  7. Japan
  8. Australia
  9. Netherlands
  10. Switzerland
I don't see the United States on that top 10 list.

Source: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...ystem?slide=12

Yes. Realize this isn't a research report, just the result of a vote that people 'think.' Note that these aren't "the best medical treatment." They are simply slated as 'best care system.' What do they mean? What is the litmus test for such an intangible as 'best health system?'
Note too that it is a poll. It means it is subjective and has no bearing in facts other than 'these are what people that we asked think is best.' This one gives scores based on recovery. Note the U.S. is up with the top 10. See here too. This report is much more meaningful than a "who do you 'feel' or 'believe' has the best health care.


Health insurance certainly does play a part--to the tune of $812 billion per year in administrative costs alone, or $2,497 per person in the U.S. -- https://time.com/5759972/health-care...trative-costs/
There, we'd be on the same page. Insurance companies need to be out of the health profession. I wouldn't want government involved either. Financiers always come into play when people don't want to be 'bothered with the figures' but there was a time you'd simply pay for services rendered. The good: No middleman so no outrageous middle cost. The bad: Only as good as you can afford unless your particular doctor had a big heart. So while I'm certainly for improvement, no contest, I'm fairly sure government is not the hands I want on it, to get those improvements. In my city, roads are not taken care of, yet we okay'd hundreds of millions to make those improvements. If I'd paid that to a private company, I could sue for the lack of service. What you give to the government, you'd have a VERY VERY hard time holding them accountable. They have 'excuses' and you cannot sue against 'well-meaning.' The VA is evidence of what our government will do with 'government' health service. The waiting lines are 4-hour waits simply for pharmacy! You go in for a cream, you wait for hours before it can be filled. That isn't efficient and costs vast amounts of lost time, $, other resources, and health. Bernie promises 'increased Social Security.' That money has already been stolen/mis-allocated. The only way he could increase is to highly tax the younger generation. In the short run, a democrat may actually be better for me, than for you but I don't like what it'll cost you, in order to support me, when I retire. Democrats always tax the working middle class because we are, by group, the wealthiest in America. EVERY Democratic effort will cost house buyers about $100 more a month in taxes. I work hard and can afford some of this, but the younger generation cannot even afford a house at this time. I dread what more taxes and less money will do to your generation. It feels more and more like it will be desperate gambles of frustration with you losing more and more ability and freedom traded on empty promises that simply cannot pay off in the end.
 

Lon

Well-known member
You know my favorite part about the coronavirus?

So my suspicion is that after the coronavirus does its work, we aren't going to be having to have these stupid discussions for much longer.

Ungodly, wicked too, btw. You want to kill off your own parents and grandparents? Your best friends'?

It isn't worth your eternal soul to be wicked or anything else that compromises your faith. What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, but lose his/her soul? Mark 8:36
 

User Name

Greatest poster ever
Banned

:chuckle:

Realize this isn't a research report, just the result of a vote that people 'think.' Note that these aren't "the best medical treatment." They are simply slated as 'best care system.' What do they mean? What is the litmus test for such an intangible as 'best health system?'
Note too that it is a poll. It means it is subjective and has no bearing in facts other than 'these are what people that we asked think is best.' This one gives scores based on recovery. Note the U.S. is up with the top 10. See here too. This report is much more meaningful than a "who do you 'feel' or 'believe' has the best health care.

Patient satisfaction has got to account for quite a bit. I checked the links you posted, and I don't quite understand...

1) http://worldpopulationreview.com/cou...-in-the-world/ ranks the United States at number 37. Is that supposed to be good?

2) https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...-diabetes-2015 -- If you scroll down there are a number of categories where the United States does not fare very well. So all in all, I don't think it's fair to claim that we have the best health care system in the world and therefore progressive reforms are unjustified. That just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
 
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Lon

Well-known member
Patient satisfaction has got to account for quite a bit. I checked the links you posted, and I don't quite understand... http://worldpopulationreview.com/cou...-in-the-world/ ranks the United States at number 37. Is that supposed to be good? Also, at https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/...-diabetes-2015 if you scroll down there are a number of categories where the United States fares quite poorly. So all in all, I don't think it's fair to claim that "we have the best health care system in the world," and therefore progressive reforms are unjustified. That just doesn't wash.

Well, notice in the list that 37th was only in one category. At other points it rivaled any other country. A good many people come to America for specialized heath. You'd have to do a bit of research, but you'd not find a huge group of Americans travelling to Italy (the top of one of those lists). So in context, 'best' isn't like the Olympics, where you know who the 'fastest' or whatever is. In medicine, Americans are, for instance, suffering from obesity related illnesses thus have some of the highest health problems of any country. In another, we have the highest recovery rate among heart attack victims, specifically because we have the most of them, and again, specifically because we as a country put ourselves the most at risk.
 

User Name

Greatest poster ever
Banned
Well, notice in the list that 37th was only in one category. At other points it rivaled any other country.

The USA rivals any other country with universal health care, and they rival us, so why shouldn't we have universal health care too?

I still don't understand your point regarding this link you posted to support your argument: http://worldpopulationreview.com/cou...-in-the-world/

It clearly states the following:

The Legatum Institute's Prosperity Index ranked at 149 countries in several different categories, including healthcare. This report looks at factors including health infrastructure, basic mental and physical health, and the availability of preventative care. Based on the latest report, the following countries were found to have the best healthcare:
Again, I don't see the USA on this list.
 

Traditio

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Lon

1. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Note this carefully.

EVERY. OTHER. DEVELOPED. COUNTRY. ON. EARTH. HAS. UNIVERSAL. HEALTHCARE. COVERAGE. AND. THEY. PAY. HALF. OF. WHAT. WE. DO. PER. CAPITA. AND. GET. BETTER. HEALTH. OUTCOMES.

There is no debate to be had about the issue. There's an empirically correct answer. And then there is the nonsense that moderate democrats and right wingers spout off.

Not to mention, we already have medicare. It works just fine. And it's far more economically efficient than the private health insurance industry. The overhead administrative costs of running it are much lower.

2. Where do you think the US is on the WHO rankings for the various healthcare systems around the world? Top 5? Top 10?

Nope.

The WHO ranks the US dead last among all first world countries. The US is ranked like 37th or something.
 

User Name

Greatest poster ever
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Lon

1. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Note this carefully.

That's why I said The Lancet called him a liar--because I know he's been told this stuff before, and he just refuses to let it sink in...so he keeps repeating the same disinfo.
 

Traditio

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Banned
That's $12k a year!

Literally whatever number it's going to cost if we do medicare for all?

It's going to cost MUCH MORE to keep the private system.

The moderate democrat and right wing talking point that medicare for all is "SO EXPENSIVE! HOW CAN WE AFFORD IT"?

It's a stupid talking point.

The question you should be asking isn't how we can afford medicare for all.

It's asking how we can afford to keep the current system.

It's TWICE as expensive per capita as what EVERY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY ON EARTH has.
 

Traditio

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:doh: "Kids these days don't understand basic math :(

The US is bracing for 96 million infections and about half a million deaths. The overwhelming majority of those half a million people are people who demographically likely are either voting for moderate democrats or Republicans.

You don't think that's going to make a difference when it comes to electoral politics?

And, for the record, I think that the half a million projection is probably wrong.

3.4% of 96,000,000 people is over 3 million people. Almost all of them over 50.

Let's even assume that we dodge a bullet and it's only 1% in the US. We're still talking about roughly a million people, almost all of them Biden and Trump voters.

The Bernard Brethren largely are going to be unaffected by this.

Unless Bernie gets the coronavirus, which, let us pray that he does not. He's also in that prime demographic.

Not to mention the man just had a heart attack. Coronavirus is the last thing Bernie needs.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
:doh: "Kids these days don't understand ...


It's your time to waste, but you're wasting your time on him

He thinks the sky is falling

Let him


He thinks bernie can be the savior who stops the sky from falling

Clearly, he's delusional
 

Traditio

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Banned
It's your time to waste, but you're wasting your time on him

What do you think? Do you think that if ~3 million (or even 1 million) Biden and Trump voters were to die, that would have an impact on electoral politics?

You understand that in 2016, the elections in the Rust Belt were decided by razor thin margins, right?
 

Traditio

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Also, Lon, you realize that complaining about how "expensive" medicare for all would be is doubly stupid, right?

Aside from the fact that medicare for all would be much less expensive than the current system, the average worker would see pay increases.

You're probably going to be stunned by this. Let me repeat it.

Medicare for all would increase the wages of the average worker.

Why? Because their employers would no longer have to pay for their health insurance.
 

Traditio

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Banned
He thinks bernie can be the savior who stops the sky from falling

Clearly, he's delusional

You understand that a plurality, if not a majority, of people under the age of 45 agree with me, right?

This is why I can't stand boomers.

This is why the #OkBoomer hashtag is a thing.

You people really just do not get it, and even though you are completely clueless, you are still somehow massively condescending.
 
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