chrysostom

chrysostom

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a horse that was red
A Red Sea
A red dragon. "A great sword" to take peace from the earth. History records the two greatest threats to the Church have been Communism and Islam. One from the Black Sea and the other from the Red Sea. Mohammed is the rider of the red horse and Marx is the rider of the black horse.

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chrysostom

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a new year
A Time To Start A New Life
A clean room. Clean your room. You have control over your room. That's about it. You also have control over how you treat the next person you come in contact with. Start there. You also have control over what you watch, listen to, and read. Watch what goes into your mouth but more importantly what comes out of it.

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chrysostom

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a fear of death
A Test Of Faith
A reason to believe. Liberty or death. That is the question. Life without liberty is not a good deal but comfort is all important except for those who believe there is something better waiting for them. We are being tested. The opium of the masses is promising but many have found an idol and will give up their freedom for it.

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Idolater

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a fear of death
A Test Of Faith
A reason to believe. Liberty or death. That is the question. Life without liberty is not a good deal but comfort is all important except for those who believe there is something better waiting for them. We are being tested. The opium of the masses is promising but many have found an idol and will give up their freedom for it.

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Every 'western developed wealthy democracy' (code words for America and our 'clones') is free.

What you and other extreme rightists mean by freedom and liberty is more akin to anarchism. Us liberals believe in freedom and liberty we just believe in at minimum a 'night watchman' regime, while you far(thest) right people believe in government by insurance companies (the logical end of anarchism properly applied in a 'nursery' environment where it is protected until it develops).

We'd rather have elections, frankly. That's why we liberals are democrats, in that we hold elections (democracy). There's no government in anarchism so of course there's nothing to vote about, so there are no elections, so you're not democrats. You don't believe in democracy.
 

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Every 'western developed wealthy democracy' (code words for America and our 'clones') is free.

What you and other extreme rightists mean by freedom and liberty is more akin to anarchism. Us liberals believe in freedom and liberty we just believe in at minimum a 'night watchman' regime, while you far(thest) right people believe in government by insurance companies (the logical end of anarchism properly applied in a 'nursery' environment where it is protected until it develops).

We'd rather have elections, frankly. That's why we liberals are democrats, in that we hold elections (democracy). There's no government in anarchism so of course there's nothing to vote about, so there are no elections, so you're not democrats. You don't believe in democracy.
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
That's absolute democracy, yes. 'Democracy' is shorthand for 'liberal democracy', where the liberal institutions prevail; separation of powers (independent judiciary), constitutionalism, rule of law, civilian control of the military.
 

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That's absolute democracy, yes. 'Democracy' is shorthand for 'liberal democracy', where the liberal institutions prevail; separation of powers (independent judiciary), constitutionalism, rule of law, civilian control of the military.
That sounds wonderful... but in reality is it completely corrupt.
 

ok doser

Well-known member
That's absolute democracy, yes. 'Democracy' is shorthand for 'liberal democracy', where the liberal institutions prevail; separation of powers (independent judiciary), constitutionalism, rule of law, civilian control of the military.
Separation of powers has allowed for the growth of corruption in each separate branch, each of which is supposed to be self-regulating.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
That sounds wonderful... but in reality is it completely corrupt.
Separation of powers has allowed for the growth of corruption in each separate branch, each of which is supposed to be self-regulating.
I would like to see some sort of source that supports your claim that corruption is particularly a problem in the western democracies like the US, Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Australia, NZ, Canada, UK, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Scandanavia, Netherlands; and that it's not more particularly a problem in countries without the liberal institutions like the separation of powers, like Russia, China, Vietnam, Lebanon, Syria, Afghanistan, Iran. North Korea? And all the other countries where they don't have the separation of powers, just for one, of their missing liberal institutions.

The western democracies (the US plus all the copies of the US) are the most free from corruption among all the world's countries.
 

Idolater

Well-known member
What a lot of words you wrote after that!

And none of them were "my claim" 🤔
Your post indicated that corruption overall is a problem where there's separation of powers. I answered that notion directly. There is not that problem. And I further addressed that if there is the problem that you claim is occurring, then it must be that this problem is much less severe of a problem than you're indicating, where you're arguing against the separation of powers. Your alternative, where there is no separation of powers, is in fact where all the most severe cases of corruption occurs, not where there is separation of powers.

Am I misunderstanding your point?
 

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I would like to see some sort of source that supports your claim that corruption is particularly a problem in the western democracies like the US, Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan, Australia, NZ, Canada, UK, France, Spain, Germany, Italy, Scandanavia, Netherlands; and that it's not more particularly a problem in countries without the liberal institutions like the separation of powers, like Russia, China, Vietnam, Lebanon, Syria, Afghanistan, Iran. North Korea? And all the other countries where they don't have the separation of powers, just for one, of their missing liberal institutions.
I made NO SUCH CLAIM.
The western democracies (the US plus all the copies of the US) are the most free from corruption among all the world's countries.
Yes, they are the best and they are STILL HORRIBLE.
 
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