That and much more that they teach, such as the Son being created.
Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!
- Thread starter Apple7
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Funnily enough, last month's Bible Study CD from BEL was John Vol. 2: Life With Jesus, which includes the following passages:
Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. - John 8:54-59 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John8:54-59&version=NKJV
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.I and My Father are one.”Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand. - John 10:25-39 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John10:25-39&version=NKJV
genuineoriginal
New member
Jesus saw that Satan was trying to get Jesus to tempt the Lord God by trying to force God to send His angels to save Jesus from harm.
The verses do not have Jesus claiming to be God.
And called Lord, God, and Savior.
How do they miss all that?????
So if He was just the Son of God, then why here:
Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me.But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.I and My Father are one.”Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods”’?If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand. - John 10:25-39 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John10:25-39&version=NKJV
Did the Jews want to stone Him for claiming to be God?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Here's something it says that applies to all those who refuse to see.
Isaiah 45:15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
genuineoriginal
New member
No, that teaching comes from mainstream Christianity, not from the Bible.
No, you have put the teaching from mainstream Christianity over the plain teachings of scripture when it comes to the Trinity doctrine.
This is even more clear whenever a Trinitarian claims a Non-Trinitarian cannot be a Christian because they don't believe the Trinity doctrine.
Since the Bible never teaches the Trinity doctrine, believing in the Trinity doctrine is not required to be a Christian.
The Trinity doctrine is a distraction from the plain teachings of the Bible.
genuineoriginal
New member
Are you trying to prove that Trinitarians have no problem with mocking Jesus and mocking God?
No Non-Trinitarian Christian I have ever heard of would even think of mocking God and the Son of God in that manner.
Non-Trinitarian Christians hold Jesus in high regard as the only begotten Son of God and Lord and hold God the Father in the highest regard.
The beginning of the story tells us that Satan was tempting the Son, not the Father or the Holy Spirit. Matt 4:1
God says "do not worship anyone/thing besides ME"
Jesus accepts worship.
No other Godly creature accepted worship.
Either Jesus is God, and worthy of worship
OR
Jesus is NOT God, and should not be trusted, because He accepted worship that belonged to God.
Jesus accepts worship.
No other Godly creature accepted worship.
Either Jesus is God, and worthy of worship
OR
Jesus is NOT God, and should not be trusted, because He accepted worship that belonged to God.
genuineoriginal
New member
That is just a rehash of the same arguments that have been rejected by Non-Trinitarian Christians for 2000 years.
Scripture also teaches that there are many gods.
The Trinity doctrine relies on the verses that teach that God is the only God of the children of Israel and ignore all the verses that teach that there are other gods that the children of Israel are not to follow.
The Bible does not teach that God is three persons.
Nothing you have posted refutes that basic fact.
No.
Whether you speak the words audibly or not, it is still in your heart that Jesus is not GOD.
So, audibly or not, GOD will see what is in your heart.
Not to mention what is typed out on these pages.
genuineoriginal
New member
Yes
Yes
No
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
No
genuineoriginal
New member
The scripture does not teach that the Son of God was created, nor does it teach that the Son of God was not created.
Anyone that tries to teach either option has strayed from what the scriptures teach into their own imagination and thoughts.
glorydaz
Well-known member
You notice how all those who don't see Jesus is God are also blind to the Gospel of Grace? :think:
They all think they have to work to please God...not recognizing that it was our Lord God Almighty who took on the form of a servant to die for all those who believe in HIM. They stumble at the Rock. :sigh:
Deuteronomy 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Deuteronomy 32:18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Deuteronomy 32:18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
genuineoriginal
New member
Isn't it amazing that Jesus specifically avoided stating "I am God" and made sure that everyone heard that His claim is "I am the Son of God"?
Rejected != Refuted
Ok, AND?!
Is every time the Bible use "gods" ("elohim") referring to angels, judges, humans, etc? Or are there times when "gods" is referring to the One God?
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.And who can proclaim as I do? Then let him declare it and set it in order for Me, Since I appointed the ancient people. And the things that are coming and shall come, Let them show these to them.Do not fear, nor be afraid; Have I not told you from that time, and declared it? You are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Indeed there is no other Rock; I know not one.’”Those who make an image, all of them are useless, And their precious things shall not profit; They are their own witnesses; They neither see nor know, that they may be ashamed.Who would form a god or mold an image That profits him nothing?Surely all his companions would be ashamed; And the workmen, they are mere men. Let them all be gathered together, Let them stand up; Yet they shall fear, They shall be ashamed together.The blacksmith with the tongs works one in the coals, Fashions it with hammers, And works it with the strength of his arms. Even so, he is hungry, and his strength fails; He drinks no water and is faint.The craftsman stretches out his rule, He marks one out with chalk; He fashions it with a plane, He marks it out with the compass, And makes it like the figure of a man, According to the beauty of a man, that it may remain in the house.He cuts down cedars for himself, And takes the cypress and the oak; He secures it for himself among the trees of the forest. He plants a pine, and the rain nourishes it.Then it shall be for a man to burn, For he will take some of it and warm himself; Yes, he kindles it and bakes bread; Indeed he makes a god and worships it; He makes it a carved image, and falls down to it.He burns half of it in the fire; With this half he eats meat; He roasts a roast, and is satisfied. He even warms himself and says, “Ah! I am warm, I have seen the fire.”And the rest of it he makes into a god, His carved image. He falls down before it and worships it, Prays to it and says, “Deliver me, for you are my god!”They do not know nor understand; For He has shut their eyes, so that they cannot see, And their hearts, so that they cannot understand.And no one considers in his heart, Nor is there knowledge nor understanding to say, “I have burned half of it in the fire, Yes, I have also baked bread on its coals; I have roasted meat and eaten it; And shall I make the rest of it an abomination? Shall I fall down before a block of wood?”He feeds on ashes; A deceived heart has turned him aside; And he cannot deliver his soul, Nor say, “ Is there not a lie in my right hand?” - Isaiah 44:6-20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah44:6-20&version=NKJV
Asserting it over and over and over and... again does not make it true, nor does it refute the Box I posted above.
genuineoriginal
New member
No, they were clearly trying to stone Him for claiming to be the Son of God.
It was the Pharisees that Jesus condemned often that made the mistake.
Have you been partaking of the leaven of the Pharisees?
Um, yes, Jesus IS IN FACT the CREATOR GOD:
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. - Colossians 1:15-18 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Colossians1:15-18&version=NKJV