Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!

[Apple7]

Wow...what a stretch.

Wow what a diversion.

Go ahead and deny that the verse you posed lead to the Spirit of GOD as I said it would because all of them do.

So a literal man pushed up the waters and drowned the Egyptians?

Nope

Stop stretching the truth. It won't end well.

Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk

The Trinity delivered Egypt, silly man.




Who delivered the people out of Egypt? (OT/NT):

• Yahweh Elohim (Exo 6.7, 20.2)
• Yahweh (Exo 3.4, 6.6, 3.7-8, 13, 26, 7.5, 12.17, 42, 51, 13.8, 9, 14, 16, ; Deut 1.27, 4.20, 5.6, 15, 6.12, 8.14, 9.7, Judges 2.12, 6.8, 13, 10.11; Joshua 24.6, 17; 1 Sam 8.8, 10.18, 12.6-8; 2 Sam 7.5 – 6; 1 Kings 8.9 – 16, 21, 9.9; 2 Kings 17.7, 36; Jer 2.6, 7.22, 11.4- 7, 16.14, 23.7, 31.31-32, 34.13, Psalm 81.10, 2 Chron 6.5, 7.22, Amos 2.10, 3.1, 9.7; Zech 10.10, Micah 6.4, Isa 52.12)
• Arm of Yahweh SON (Exo 6.6, 15.16, Deut 5.15, 2 Kings 17.37, Jer 32.21, Acts 13.17)
• Haelohim (all the Gods) (Exo 3.1; 1 Chron 17.21)
• Power of Yahweh SPIRIT (Deut 4.37, 2 Kings 17.37)
• Presence (Deut 4.37)
• My Hand SPIRIT (Exo 7.4-5, 13.3,9, 14, 16, Deut 5.15, 6.21, 9.26, Eze 20.6, Jer 32.21, Dan 9.15, Acts 7.35)
• Adonay Yahweh (1 Kings 8.53)
• Adoney Elohim (Dan 9.15)
• God (Acts 7.35)
• Lord (Heb 8.9)
• Debar Yahweh, The Word of God SON (Deut 5.5 – 6)
• The Word (Haggai 2.5)
• Spirit (Haggai 2.5)
• Malek Yahweh SON (Exo 3.4, Judges 2.1, Acts 7.35)
• Jesus SON (Jude 1.5)
• I AM (Exo 3.14)
• Elohe SON (Exo 3.6, Isa 52.12)
• Father (Deut 32.6)
• Pillar SPIRIT (Exo 13.21 – 22, 14.19-24, 24.15 – 18,24; Num 9.15 – 16)
• Holy Spirit (Isa 63.11)





What can you do now?

 

[popsthebuilder]

The Trinity delivered Egypt, silly man.




Who delivered the people out of Egypt? (OT/NT):

•Yahweh Elohim (Exo 6.7, 20.2)
•Yahweh (Exo 3.4, 6.6, 3.7-8, 13, 26, 7.5, 12.17, 42, 51, 13.8, 9, 14, 16, ; Deut 1.27, 4.20, 5.6, 15, 6.12, 8.14, 9.7, Judges 2.12, 6.8, 13, 10.11; Joshua 24.6, 17; 1 Sam 8.8, 10.18, 12.6-8; 2 Sam 7.5 – 6; 1 Kings 8.9 – 16, 21, 9.9; 2 Kings 17.7, 36; Jer 2.6, 7.22, 11.4- 7, 16.14, 23.7, 31.31-32, 34.13, Psalm 81.10, 2 Chron 6.5, 7.22, Amos 2.10, 3.1, 9.7; Zech 10.10, Micah 6.4, Isa 52.12)
•Arm of Yahweh SON (Exo 6.6, 15.16, Deut 5.15, 2 Kings 17.37, Jer 32.21, Acts 13.17)
•Haelohim (all the Gods) (Exo 3.1; 1 Chron 17.21)
•Power of Yahweh SPIRIT (Deut 4.37, 2 Kings 17.37)
•Presence (Deut 4.37)
•My Hand SPIRIT (Exo 7.4-5, 13.3,9, 14, 16, Deut 5.15, 6.21, 9.26, Eze 20.6, Jer 32.21, Dan 9.15, Acts 7.35)
•Adonay Yahweh (1 Kings 8.53)
•Adoney Elohim (Dan 9.15)
•God (Acts 7.35)
•Lord (Heb 8.9)
•Debar Yahweh, The Word of God SON (Deut 5.5 – 6)
•The Word (Haggai 2.5)
•Spirit (Haggai 2.5)
•Malek Yahweh SON (Exo 3.4, Judges 2.1, Acts 7.35)
•Jesus SON (Jude 1.5)
•I AM (Exo 3.14)
•Elohe SON (Exo 3.6, Isa 52.12)
•Father (Deut 32.6)
•Pillar SPIRIT (Exo 13.21 – 22, 14.19-24, 24.15 – 18,24; Num 9.15 – 16)
•Holy Spirit (Isa 63.11)





What can you do now?

All the same Spirit.

What can you do now?

I dare you to deny it.....no actually, don't.

Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk

 

[Apple7]

All the same Spirit.

What can you do now?

I dare you to deny it.....no actually, don't.

Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk

Not in scripture, old man.

 

[Apple7]

pops loves to get spanked...:chuckle:

 

[popsthebuilder]

Not in scripture, old man.

Cool. Show me the other ones then.

Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

You are stuck into thinking that the term Theos only refers to God The Father. Think again...

I agree, as the title “God” is also applied to Angels and Judges. But here in Hebrews 1:1 you have already suggested that “God” is referring to God the Father and I agree that this is God the Father.

Show us your exegesis. Oh...that's right....you can't...

First a comment on your explanation. You claim that “God” in Hebrews 1:1 is God the Father and the polutropos represents God the Holy Spirit and God the Son. I do not know how you arrive at this decisive conclusion, and how you can configure “many” into two. I have grave doubts about your language claims as they do not line up with my reference books, but I am only an amateur.

A clearer view of Hebrews 1:1 can be seen when each of the phrases are compared, and the best way to view this is in a table, but I do not know how to configure this. The following could be read, firstly down the LHS, then the RHS, and then comparing phrase to phrase. We have the subject “God” at the top, and I agree with you that this is God the Father:
Hebrews 1:1–2 (NASB95): God,
(Phrase 1) after He spoke long ago --- in these last days has spoken
to the fathers --- to us
in the prophets --- in His Son
in many portions and in many ways, --- (Note: no corresponding phrase, but it is implied).

The implied phrase is the major subject of the Letter to the Hebrews, where the past revelation through the prophets is compared with the revelation through Jesus the Son of God.

A brief summary of some of the book showing this distinction between past revelation and the revelation in and through Jesus Christ, the Son of God, could be stated as:
Chapters 1-2: Christ greater than the angels
Chapter 3: Christ greater than Moses
Chapter 4: Christ greater than Joshua
Chapter 5: Christ greater than Aaron
Chapter 6: Exhort to continue to progress
Chapter 7: A greater order of Priesthood
Chapters 8-9: A greater Tabernacle
Chapter 10: A greater sacrifice
Chapter 11: Faith, a greater motivation
Chapter 12: A greater hope
Chapter 13: A final appeal

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7, I agree, as the title “God” is also applied to Angels and Judges.

Show us.

But here in Hebrews 1:1 you have already suggested that “God” is referring to God the Father and I agree that this is God the Father.

Context, grammar and exegesis shows that it is God The Father.

Just as grammar declares that Jesus is God, in passages such as these...


Titus 2.13

προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου

prosdechomenoi tēn makarian elpida kai epiphaneian tēs doxēs tou megalou theou kai sōtēros hēmōn christou iēsou

Looking for the blessed hope and appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,


and...


2 Peter 1.1

σιμων πετρος δουλος και αποστολος ιησου χριστου τοις ισοτιμον ημιν λαχουσιν πιστιν εν δικαιοσυνη του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου

simōn petros doulos kai apostolos iēsou christou tois isotimon hēmin lachousin pisten en dikaiosunē tou theou hēmōn kai sōtēros iēsou christou

Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those equally precious with us, having obtained faith in the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:

 

[Apple7]

First a comment on your explanation. You claim that “God” in Hebrews 1:1 is God the Father and the polutropos represents God the Holy Spirit and God the Son.

Correction.

Both ‘polymeros’, by many portions, and ‘polytropos’, in various forms, refer to The Second and Third Persons of The Trinity.

I do not know how you arrive at this decisive conclusion, and how you can configure “many” into two. I have grave doubts about your language claims as they do not line up with my reference books, but I am only an amateur.

The Word manifested in human form All throughout the OT.

The Holy Spirit manifested in the human form of Melchizedek, a dove, a pillar of smoke, etc, etc.

 

[Apple7]

A clearer view of Hebrews 1:1 can be seen when each of the phrases are compared, and the best way to view this is in a table, but I do not know how to configure this. The following could be read, firstly down the LHS, then the RHS, and then comparing phrase to phrase. We have the subject “God” at the top, and I agree with you that this is God the Father:
Hebrews 1:1–2 (NASB95): God,
(Phrase 1) after He spoke long ago --- in these last days has spoken
to the fathers --- to us
in the prophets --- in His Son
in many portions and in many ways, --- (Note: no corresponding phrase, but it is implied).

The implied phrase is the major subject of the Letter to the Hebrews, where the past revelation through the prophets is compared with the revelation through Jesus the Son of God.

Why not just refer to the Greek, Trevor?

Why do you insist on beating yourself up, again and again?

Heb 1.2 informs the reader that God The Father continues to 'speak' though The Son.

Did Jesus have a human form and a mouth with which to speak....or did He use the Vulcan mind-meld when communicating?

If God 'spoke' BEFORE The Word became flesh, then speaking in the flesh cannot be any different.

 

[Apple7]

A brief summary of some of the book showing this distinction between past revelation and the revelation in and through Jesus Christ, the Son of God, could be stated as:
Chapters 1-2: Christ greater than the angels

'Greater' than the angels?!

Your cultic-eyes apparently glazed over when you willfully skipped Heb 1.6 where ALL the angels WORSHIP The Son!!!

Angels only worship God.

Period.


Wake up from your nightmare, trevor...

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

I suggest we have been over some of this ground before, but what is unique is your understanding of Hebrews 1:1-2.

Show us.

Psalm 8:4–6 (KJV): 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (Hebrew Elohim), and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Psalm 8:5 (NASB95): Yet You have made him a little lower than God (Hebrew Elohim), And You crown him with glory and majesty!
Hebrews 2:5–9 (KJV): 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Correction. Both ‘polymeros’, by many portions, and ‘polytropos’, in various forms, refer to The Second and Third Persons of The Trinity.
The Word manifested in human form All throughout the OT.
The Holy Spirit manifested in the human form of Melchizedek, a dove, a pillar of smoke, etc, etc.

Could I ask if you have encountered your view in any commentary, even Trinitarian commentaries? There are many that are readily available, such as Matthew’s commentary and many others. Could you cite any Commentary that agrees with you? To me, this is typical of some of your obscure views that you conjure up in support of the Trinity. While we are on the subject of your unique views, could you also find a commentary that suggests that Melchizedek is God the Holy Spirit? Do you claim Spirit-guidance in all of your new, unique concepts?

Why not just refer to the Greek, Trevor? Why do you insist on beating yourself up, again and again?

You claim that your special understanding of Hebrews 1:1-2 is based on your Greek ability, but I believe that this is only bluff. What you claim is not based on the Greek, but upon your unique understanding and attempts to squeeze the Trinity into every verse and context.

Heb 1.2 informs the reader that God The Father continues to 'speak' though The Son.
Did Jesus have a human form and a mouth with which to speak....or did He use the Vulcan mind-meld when communicating?
If God 'spoke' BEFORE The Word became flesh, then speaking in the flesh cannot be any different.

The contrast is that God spoke in old time to the fathers in and through the prophets, but in the last days God has spoken to us in and through His Son.

'Greater' than the angels?! Your cultic-eyes apparently glazed over when you willfully skipped Heb 1.6 where ALL the angels WORSHIP The Son!!! Angels only worship God. Period. Wake up from your nightmare, trevor...

Philippians 2:9–11 (KJV): 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7,

I suggest we have been over some of this ground before, but what is unique is your understanding of Hebrews 1:1-2. Psalm 8:4–6 (KJV): 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels (Hebrew Elohim), and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
Psalm 8:5 (NASB95): Yet You have made him a little lower than God (Hebrew Elohim), And You crown him with glory and majesty!
Hebrews 2:5–9 (KJV): 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


Kind regards
Trevor

Indeed, we have already covered this ground before, Trevor...

Why would the angels worship The Son if He was made lower than them?

They wouldn't.

This lends substantial credence to the term 'Elohim' referring to God, not angels or magistrates.

As always, context clarified it for the reader.

But....you would rather ignore Heb 1.6, in which God's angels WORSHIP The Son as God.....in favor of your cultic denial of Jesus' divinity.


Give it up, Trevor...

 

[Apple7]

Could I ask if you have encountered your view in any commentary, even Trinitarian commentaries? There are many that are readily available, such as Matthew’s commentary and many others. Could you cite any Commentary that agrees with you? To me, this is typical of some of your obscure views that you conjure up in support of the Trinity. While we are on the subject of your unique views, could you also find a commentary that suggests that Melchizedek is God the Holy Spirit? Do you claim Spirit-guidance in all of your new, unique concepts?

The orthodox position of Christianity has always been Trinitarian.

Thus, the onus is upon YOU to demonstrate your heretical view.

You claim that your special understanding of Hebrews 1:1-2 is based on your Greek ability, but I believe that this is only bluff. What you claim is not based on the Greek, but upon your unique understanding and attempts to squeeze the Trinity into every verse and context. The contrast is that God spoke in old time to the fathers in and through the prophets, but in the last days God has spoken to us in and through His Son. Philippians 2:9–11 (KJV): 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Kind regards
Trevor

Feel free to show your exegesis to the contrary.

Until then, your opinion means nothing.....to anyone...

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

Indeed, we have already covered this ground before, Trevor...
Why would the angels worship The Son if He was made lower than them? They wouldn't. This lends substantial credence to the term 'Elohim' referring to God, not angels or magistrates. As always, context clarified it for the reader.

But Hebrews 2:5-9 not only quotes Psalm 8:5 translating “Elohim” as “angels”, but also clearly states that Jesus was made lower than the angels. My impression is that you do not have an overall understanding of the Letter to the Hebrews, but only use it where you attempt to squeeze the Trinity into verses that are in another context and do not teach the Trinity.

But....you would rather ignore Heb 1.6, in which God's angels WORSHIP The Son as God.....in favor of your cultic denial of Jesus' divinity. Give it up, Trevor...

I have already quoted Philippians 2:2-11 which shows that when we bow the knee to Jesus it is to the glory of God the Father. Here in Hebrews 1:6 it does not say that the angels worship the Son as God. The following is from an Enhanced Strong’s:
4352 προσκυνέω [proskuneo] v. 60 occurrences; AV translates as “worship” 60 times. 1 to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence. 2 among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence. 3 in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication. 3A used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank. 3A1 to the Jewish high priests. 3A2 to God. 3A3 to Christ. 3A4 to heavenly beings. 3A5 to demons.

The same word occurs in the following:
Revelation 3:9 (KJV): Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

The orthodox position of Christianity has always been Trinitarian.
Thus, the onus is upon YOU to demonstrate your heretical view.
Feel free to show your exegesis to the contrary.
Until then, your opinion means nothing.....to anyone...

I have already given my view of Hebrews 1:1-2 where it speaks of the revelation of God speaking through the prophets, compared to the complete revelation of God speaking through His Son in the last days. I also gave a brief breakup of the letter to show that Hebrews 1:1-2 is the basis of the exposition of the rest of the Letter, showing the greatness of Jesus Christ compared to all that had been revealed in part previously through the prophets. What I have been challenging is your unique view concerning Hebrews 1:1-2 as per this earlier Post:

Both ‘polymeros’, by many portions, and ‘polytropos’, in various forms, refer to The Second and Third Persons of The Trinity.
The Word manifested in human form All throughout the OT.
The Holy Spirit manifested in the human form of Melchizedek, a dove, a pillar of smoke, etc, etc.

Now I still issue the challenge for you to find any commonly used Commentary that supports your view of Hebrews 1:1-2 and also the concept that Melchizedek is the incarnation of God the Holy Spirit. I would issue the same challenge to JudgeRightly, but I notice that he endorsed nearly every Post that you have made except this particular claim. If he does support your view on Hebrews 1:1-2 and Melchizedek, then he may like to also take up this challenge.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[lifeisgood]

I can speak up and tell you that you made up something about me. How quiet do you want another person to be when you make up things about them?

Making something about you by repeating what you write? You should work on that spirit of persecution that rear its ugly head all the time.

 

[God's Truth]

Making something about you by repeating what you write? You should work on that spirit of persecution that rear its ugly head all the time.

People don't have to sit and be quiet while you lie about them. They don't have to take it either when you lie and say they have a persecution problem when they speak up about you lying.

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7, But Hebrews 2:5-9 not only quotes Psalm 8:5 translating “Elohim” as “angels”, but also clearly states that Jesus was made lower than the angels. My impression is that you do not have an overall understanding of the Letter to the Hebrews, but only use it where you attempt to squeeze the Trinity into verses that are in another context and do not teach the Trinity.

Your Christadelphian cult roots betray you, often, Trevor...


Let’s review the term, mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm, which you want to be rendered as ‘angels’.

Its location as used in the verse in question…

For You have made him lack a little from God (mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm); and have crowned him with glory and honor. (Psalm 8.5)


Now…let’s compare the same exact term as used in the only two other places in scripture, as thus…


And he sent messengers to him, saying, What do I have to do with you, O king of Judah? I am not coming against you today, but toward the house with which I have war; and God said for me to hasten; stop yourself from opposing God (mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm), who is with me, and He shall not destroy you. (2 Chron 35.21)

Now…please tell us how many translators render mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm as ‘angels’ in 2 Chron 35.21?

That’s correct…none.



And then burned the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram; his wrath burned against Job, because he had justified himself rather than God (mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm). (Job 32.2)

Now…please tell us how many translators render mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm as ‘angels’ in Job 32.2?

That’s correct…none.


So…scripturally, we have thus established, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the Hebrew term, mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm, is to be rendered as God….NOT ‘angels’.

 

[Apple7]

I have already quoted Philippians 2:2-11 which shows that when we bow the knee to Jesus it is to the glory of God the Father. Here in Hebrews 1:6 it does not say that the angels worship the Son as God. The following is from an Enhanced Strong’s:
4352 προσκυνέω [proskuneo] v. 60 occurrences; AV translates as “worship” 60 times. 1 to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence. 2 among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence. 3 in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication. 3A used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank. 3A1 to the Jewish high priests. 3A2 to God. 3A3 to Christ. 3A4 to heavenly beings. 3A5 to demons.

The same word occurs in the following:
Revelation 3:9 (KJV): Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

As usual, you haven't a clue as to what you are doing.

Now....review this passage, and please tell us why 'proskuneo' (that you claim does NOT refer to WORSHIP) is applied to God The Father...

αλλα ερχεται ωρα και νυν εστιν οτε οι αληθινοι προσκυνηται προσκυνησουσιν τω πατρι εν πνευματι και αληθεια και γαρ ο πατηρ τοιουτους ζητει τους προσκυνουντας αυτον πνευμα ο θεος και τους προσκυνουντας αυτον εν πνευματι και αληθεια δει προσκυνειν


Applying your logic, then God The Father is NOT being worshiped!




:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

Your Christadelphian cult roots betray you, often, Trevor... Let’s review the term, mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm, which you want to be rendered as ‘angels’. Its location as used in the verse in question…
For You have made him lack a little from God (mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm); and have crowned him with glory and honor. (Psalm 8.5)
Now…let’s compare the same exact term as used in the only two other places in scripture, as thus…
And he sent messengers to him, saying, What do I have to do with you, O king of Judah? I am not coming against you today, but toward the house with which I have war; and God said for me to hasten; stop yourself from opposing God (mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm), who is with me, and He shall not destroy you. (2 Chron 35.21)
Now…please tell us how many translators render mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm as ‘angels’ in 2 Chron 35.21? That’s correct…none.
And then burned the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram; his wrath burned against Job, because he had justified himself rather than God (mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm). (Job 32.2) Now…please tell us how many translators render mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm as ‘angels’ in Job 32.2? That’s correct…none.
So…scripturally, we have thus established, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the Hebrew term, mê·’ĕ·lō·hîm, is to be rendered as God….NOT ‘angels’.

But you haven’t explained why the writer of the Letter to the Hebrews translates Elohim as Angels and applies this fact to Jesus. Are you suggesting that you understand the Hebrew language in this particular context better than this writer and his Hebrew audience?
Hebrews 2:5–9 (KJV): 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
His audience could say, but what about 2 Chronicles 35:21 and Job 32:2, surely we cannot accept your application of Psalm 8:5 to Jesus, and thus we reject Jesus as the suffering Saviour and go back to the Law.

As usual, you haven't a clue as to what you are doing.
Now....review this passage, and please tell us why 'proskuneo' (that you claim does NOT refer to WORSHIP) is applied to God The Father...
Applying your logic, then God The Father is NOT being worshiped! :chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:

Your logic is defective, as you seem to build up your reasoning in reverse and then get lost in your logic. I worship God the Father and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ, and this worship of God’s Son redounds to the glory of God the Father as Philippians 2:9-11 clearly states. You have not responded to the application of the same word in Revelation 3:9, or to the Enhanced Strong’s definition of the word.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again Apple7, But you haven’t explained why the writer of the Letter to the Hebrews translates Elohim as Angels and applies this fact to Jesus. Are you suggesting that you understand the Hebrew language in this particular context better than this writer and his Hebrew audience?
Hebrews 2:5–9 (KJV): 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
His audience could say, but what about 2 Chronicles 35:21 and Job 32:2, surely we cannot accept your application of Psalm 8:5 to Jesus, and thus we reject Jesus as the suffering Saviour and go back to the Law.
Your logic is defective, as you seem to build up your reasoning in reverse and then get lost in your logic. I worship God the Father and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ, and this worship of God’s Son redounds to the glory of God the Father as Philippians 2:9-11 clearly states. You have not responded to the application of the same word in Revelation 3:9, or to the Enhanced Strong’s definition of the word.

Kind regards
Trevor

Jesus is God the Father who came as a son and then went back to heaven to the place he was before coming to earth.

Where is Jesus now?

Jesus is at the same place he was before coming to earth.

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.


Where is Jesus now?

Jesus is on the throne of God the Father; so then, it is the same place he had before coming to earth.

This scripture says Jesus is the who is and was and is to come and whom we know is God and it says it is Jesus' throne:

Revelation 1:4
John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from Him who is and was and is to come, and from the sevenfold Spirit before His throne,

Jesus is the who is and was and is to come and is called Almighty; Almighty is God:

Revelation 1:7-8 KJV
(7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
(8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


Jesus is God the Father.

Zechariah 12:10
Then I will pour out on the house of David and on the residents of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and prayer, and they will look on Me, the One they have pierced. They will mourn for Him as one mourns an only child, and weep bitterly for Him as one grieves a firstborn son.

Revelation 1:7
Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him--even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen.

Revelation 1:7-8 KJV
(7) Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
(8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


Jesus is the Father come as a Son.
Jesus has EVERY name given to him.

Philippians 2:9-
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.