Christianity And Judaism Divided

[jamie]

All blame to Paul for keeping the division alive since then through his policy of Replacement Theology.

Paul's replacement theology? OK, let's talk about it.

Paul said, "For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree..." (Romans 11:16-17)

Why were the natural branches broken off?

Paul explained, "You will say then, 'Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.' Well said, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear."
(Romans 11:19-20)

The branches were broken off because of unbelief. However, "And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again." (Romans 11:23)

How long will you remain in unbelief?

 

[CherubRam]

[FONT=&quot]Truth
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

Acts 20:29-30
29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Romans 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Romans 2:2
Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.

Romans 2:8
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

1 Corinthians 13:6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

2 Corinthians 4:2
Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

Galatians 4:16
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

2 Timothy 4:4
They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

2 Peter 2:2
Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.[/FONT]

 

[CherubRam]

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

With the passing of the disciples many things were added to the bible.

 

[CherubRam]

Jeremiah 8:8
“‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

 

[CherubRam]

[FONT=&quot]Daniel 8:12[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Because of rebellion, the LORD’s people and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and [FONT=&quot]truth was thrown to the ground.[/FONT][scriptural truth]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Rome canonized the scriptures, and the Hellenist also made changes.[/FONT]

 

[CherubRam]

Doctrine: A belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a church, political party, or other group. A particular principle, position, or policy taught or advocated, as of a religion or government: Doctrine can also include laws and traditions.

 

[CherubRam]

It looks like no one cares.

 

[Ben Masada]

Jeremiah 8:8
“‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

What do you mean? Are you implying that the Tanach is a lie? The Tanach was the only Scriptures Jesus read and referred to as the Word of God. Don't you believe that he knew a little better than you and I?

 

[Ben Masada]

Paul's replacement theology? OK, let's talk about it.

Paul said, "For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree..." (Romans 11:16-17)

Why were the natural branches broken off?

Paul explained, "You will say then, 'Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.' Well said, because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear."
(Romans 11:19-20)

The branches were broken off because of unbelief. However, "And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again." (Romans 11:23)

How long will you remain in unbelief?

Why should I believe something just because you believe? I believe the same thing Jesus used to believe. I bet you did not know that because you prefer today to believe the gospel of Paul.

 

[Ben Masada]

Psalm 16:10 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay.

What a vanity of a dream! There is no distinction between "faithful ones" and those without faith as experiencing decay is concerned. We all experience decay either we want or not, unless we are burn instead of buried. The metaphorical of "seeing decay" is simply dying which we all will, one way or another.

 

[serpentdove]

Did Orthodox Judaism believe and teach a Trinitarian doctrine?

NEVER! The Creator of the universe, according to Judaism is of an Absolute Oneness which is the opposite of the Trinity.

Esth 4:14 :straight:

Recommended reading:

The Jewish Trinity: How the Old Testament Reveals the Christian Godhead by Michael S. Heiser

 

[Ben Masada]

Did not Yah save His Anointed One from the grave to become Yahwah's salvation? Selah

Why would HaShem act against His own Word? Read 2 Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14 and Job 7:9, because Paul's word was more powerful than His? If you read II Tim. 2:8, Paul himself confessed to his disciple Timothy that Jesus' resurrection was according to his, Paul's gospel. It means that he was the one who fabricated the idea that Jesus had resurrected. Do you know what? I can prove that one will never return from the grave; can you prove otherwise? I don't think so.

 

[jamie]

Why should I believe something just because you believe?

You shouldn't, you must prove for yourself what is true.

 

[Ben Masada]

Sheol in Hebrew does mean grave. Hell is a place were people LIVE in torment. Did Orthodox Judaism teach that?

Absolutely not! Now, imagine the absurdity of this doctrine. One dies here on earth to go live in a hell-fire.

 

[Ben Masada]

You shouldn't, you must prove for yourself what is true.

I have proved already Jamie. Now, it is your turn. I mean, your chance to listen to the truth. At least, listen to the words of Jesus when he said, "Know the truth and the truth will set you free. Leave Paul and return to Jesus.

 

[CherubRam]

What do you mean? Are you implying that the Tanach is a lie? The Tanach was the only Scriptures Jesus read and referred to as the Word of God. Don't you believe that he knew a little better than you and I?

Jeremiah and Daniel say that the bible would be tampered with.

 

[CherubRam]

[FONT="]Truth
[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black][FONT="]
John 4:24
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

Acts 20:29-30
29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

Romans 1:18
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Romans 2:2
Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.

Romans 2:8
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

1 Corinthians 13:6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

2 Corinthians 4:2
Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.

Galatians 4:16
Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

2 Timothy 4:4
They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

2 Peter 2:2
Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.[/FONT]

Why are people blind and deaf to what is said in scriptures?

 

[CherubRam]

What a vanity of a dream! There is no distinction between "faithful ones" and those without faith as experiencing decay is concerned. We all experience decay either we want or not, unless we are burn instead of buried. The metaphorical of "seeing decay" is simply dying which we all will, one way or another.

Singular, not plural.

Psalm 16:10 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead, nor will you let your faithful one see decay.

 

[CherubRam]

Esth 4:14 :straight:

Recommended reading:

The Jewish Trinity: How the Old Testament Reveals the Christian Godhead by Michael S. Heiser

Having been raised a Baptist I know very well of the Trinitarian proof text. If they were not faulty, then no one would be complaining. I am not allowed show people the truth on this forum, but I can give a link if you send a PM request.

 

[CherubRam]

Why would HaShem act against His own Word? Read 2 Samuel 12:23; Isaiah 26:14 and Job 7:9, because Paul's word was more powerful than His? If you read II Tim. 2:8, Paul himself confessed to his disciple Timothy that Jesus' resurrection was according to his, Paul's gospel. It means that he was the one who fabricated the idea that Jesus had resurrected. Do you know what? I can prove that one will never return from the grave; can you prove otherwise? I don't think so.

2 Samuel 12:23 is the prophet speaking, not God. Isaiah 26:14 is speaking about AFTER the final judgement. Job 7:9 is speaking of a persons own ability to return from the dead: Quote: "one who goes down to the grave does not return." Life immortal is a gift from God. In regards to 2 Timothy, ALL of the prophets and disciples taught a resurrection of the dead.