Can God lie?

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Now we are back to OT Laws?
Some of what you call "OT Laws" are universal. They are based in eternal principles.
I thought Middies were done with the Law of Moses?
Your attempts to mock are as dumb as you.
Where in the NT's post Law guidelines are we ever told to kill anyone?
The death penalty is an important part of the principles that God has expressed throughout scripture. Your ignorance is your own fault.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Which Testament do you live in?
Like I said, rabbit trail, which you are welcome to start a new thread on. Unless you want to show here how God lied in the OT, but doesn't in the NT, or vice versa (emphasis on vice).
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Some of what you call "OT Laws" are universal. They are based in eternal principles.
An eye for an eye: a tooth for a tooth: and a life for a life are of the past, and replaced by love your enemies and forgive if you want to be forgiven, and and do good to those that hurt you.
Paul writes..."So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow." (2 Cor 2:7)
That sinner's adultery carried a death sentence in the OT.
Do you really feel that he should have been executed for it in the NT?
Your attempts to mock are as dumb as you.
My apologies, it wasn't meant in a mean way.
Do you have a better abbreviation?
So, how much more of the OT applies to you?
The death penalty is an important part of the principles that God has expressed throughout scripture. Your ignorance is your own fault.
Was Paul out of order in 2 Cor2:7 ?
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Like I said, rabbit trail, which you are welcome to start a new thread on. Unless you want to show here how God lied in the OT, but doesn't in the NT, or vice versa (emphasis on vice).
God does not lie.
Neither should we.
It is written..."Be ye holy for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:16)
 

Right Divider

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An eye for an eye: a tooth for a tooth: and a life for a life are of the past, and replaced by love your enemies and forgive if you want to be forgiven, and and do good to those that hurt you.
Paul writes..."So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow." (2 Cor 2:7)
That sinner's adultery carried a death sentence in the OT.
Do you really feel that he should have been executed for it in the NT?

My apologies, it wasn't meant in a mean way.
Do you have a better abbreviation?
So, how much more of the OT applies to you?

Was Paul out of order in 2 Cor2:7 ?
2 Cor 2 is not talking about murderers.
 

Right Divider

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A sinner is a sinner,
You are incorrect as usual. God has a scale. That's why some sins involve the death penalty and others do not.
and if we are to be forgiven we must forgive.
Wrong again! You sure are consistent. And AGAIN, you are stuck in the wrong dispensation.
I'm not going to make a Pharisee's list of which sins I will not forgive.
You think that you are so righteous.... you are not, because you oppose God.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
You are incorrect as usual. God has a scale. That's why some sins involve the death penalty and others do not.
God doesn't use a sliding scale.
Everything is black or white.
The sins that get a death penalty, besides blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, are the sins never "turned from".
Wrong again! You sure are consistent. And AGAIN, you are stuck in the wrong dispensation.
So in your dispensation you don't have to forgive any more?
How does that work its way into the Lord's prayer?
"Forgive us out trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..." (Jesus)
You think that you are so righteous.... you are not, because you oppose God.
Our opinions on that differ.
 

Right Divider

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God doesn't use a sliding scale.
Yes He does. You are totally ignorant of the law. There are some things that "merit" the death penalty and some that do not.
Everything is black or white.
You are retarded.
The sins that get a death penalty, besides blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, are the sins never "turned from".
That's not what God says.
So in your dispensation you don't have to forgive any more?
How does that work its way into the Lord's prayer?
"Forgive us out trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..." (Jesus)
Paul says differently because Christ gave him different information.
Our opinions on that differ.
You opinion is misinformed and horrible.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Jesus said, “If he repents, forgive him” (Luke 17:3-6)

Guess what that means if he does not repent?
Forgive him anyway.
If someone sins against you but, but you have moved a thousand miles away, how can he ask for your forgiveness?
How can you tell he did not repent?
Forgiveness is way better than carrying around a grudge and hate in your heart.
 

Jefferson

Administrator
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Forgive him anyway.
If someone sins against you but, but you have moved a thousand miles away, how can he ask for your forgiveness?
How can you tell he did not repent?
Forgiveness is way better than carrying around a grudge and hate in your heart.
Why do you think Jesus did not say, "Forgive him whether he repents or not"?
 

JudgeRightly

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Forgive him anyway.

Could you back this up with scripture, please?

"If he repents" is a condition for "forgive him."

The inverse is implied by the condition, "if he repents." Therefore "if he does not repent" then "do not forgive him."

If someone sins against you but, but you have moved a thousand miles away, how can he ask for your forgiveness?

Is that not a matter of the heart, at that point?

Do you think that God will not show mercy to someone who has repented, even if he doesn't repent to the one he wronged?

How can you tell he did not repent?

You don't.

If you've moved a thousand miles away, and the person who wronged you has no way of contacting you in order to repent, then you move on.

That doesn't mean you forgive him. It means you give place to wrath. "Vengeance is mine," says the LORD God, "I will repay." You leave it in God's hands.

But you don't make forgiveness superfluous just because someone cannot ask you for forgiveness.

Your doing so teaches sinners that God will forgive them even if they don't repent, and that's simply not the case.

Forgiveness is way better than carrying around a grudge and hate in your heart.

False dilemma.

Why do you think not forgiving someone means you carry around a grudge?

God hates evil.
God says for us to hate evil (that includes people who are evil).

Someone who has not repented of their evil is evil. Therefore, hating the person who wronged you, and not forgiving them, is a good thing to do.

If a sinner has not repented, do you think God is wrong to hate them? For God to continue hating them? Do you think God holds a grudge against those who do not repent? Or is God just for hating the evildoer, because he has not repented?
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Why do you think Jesus did not say, "Forgive him whether he repents or not"?
Maybe because the forgiveness profits the forgiver as much as it does the forgiven.
Jesus did not mention repentance in Matt 18:21-22.
Jesus, in Luke 17:34, does mention "if he repents-forgive": but He didn't say not to forgive if he does not repent.

Suppose, for a second, that the sinner walks away unforgiven by you, but months or years later does turn to God and is forgiven by God.
Will your unforgiveness over-rule God's mercy and love?
How could you still hold some sin against someone that God has forgiven?

Forgiveness is a much lighter "bag" than carrying a grudge.
 

Hoping

Well-known member
Banned
Could you back this up with scripture, please?
Sure...Matt 18:21-22..."Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven."
Jesus doesn't mention repentance in Matt.
"If he repents" is a condition for "forgive him."
You could indeed see it that way, but with Matt 18 in mind, and the lessons from my own life, I find forgiveness a way easier load to bear in the passing years.
The inverse is implied by the condition, "if he repents." Therefore "if he does not repent" then "do not forgive him."
Maybe, but if it is so important, why wasn't repentance mentioned in Matt 18?
Is that not a matter of the heart, at that point?
What sort of heart have you got?
Do you think that God will not show mercy to someone who has repented, even if he doesn't repent to the one he wronged?
Yes, certainly.
But you will carry the unforgiveness in your heart until you find out again that if we don't forgive we won't be forgiven...as per the Lord's prayer.
You don't.
If you've moved a thousand miles away, and the person who wronged you has no way of contacting you in order to repent, then you move on.
Why not "move on" with forgiveness in your heart?
That doesn't mean you forgive him. It means you give place to wrath. "Vengeance is mine," says the LORD God, "I will repay." You leave it in God's hands.
Can't you "leave it in God's hands" if they don't repent to you?
But you don't make forgiveness superfluous just because someone cannot ask you for forgiveness.
It isn't like you have to spend something of your own in order to forgive.
It is cheap and easy to do, thanks be to God.
I thank God every single day for His forgiveness of me, and for teaching me how to forgive.
I rejoice in the fact that nobody will end up in the lake of fire for what they did to me.
Part of the divine nature of the reborn, I guess.
Your doing so teaches sinners that God will forgive them even if they don't repent, and that's simply not the case.
If the sin in question were the only sin they ever committed, it might matter.
But sinners fates are sure to include all their other sins too.
Besides repentance from sin is the first step to salvation, after hearing and believing.
False dilemma.
It wasn't, for me.
I can remember nearly all the times I have been hurt individually or corporately.
I recall Jesus saying..."he who has been forgiven for much, loves much."
And "he who has been forgiven for little, loves little". Paraphrasing, of course.
I have been forgiven for very much...
Why do you think not forgiving someone means you carry around a grudge?
I have been that "carrier"
God hates evil.
Yes, and scripture proves it.
God says for us to hate evil (that includes people who are evil).
You have inadvertently added to scripture.
Someone who has not repented of their evil is evil. Therefore, hating the person who wronged you, and not forgiving them, is a good thing to do.
Hate by humans, is never good, ever.
If a sinner has not repented, do you think God is wrong to hate them? For God to continue hating them?
Nope.
Do you think God holds a grudge against those who do not repent?
Yes.
But I call it accurate record keeping.
Or is God just for hating the evildoer, because he has not repented?
Are not evil doers and unrepentant the same thing?
 
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