Can a Roman Catholic be a Christian?

[Catholic Crusader]

Pope Cruciform Pompous IV is now 66,666-0 on TOL.
Post a link, refer back to the link, declare victory.

What Sandbox for Morons did you just crawl out of. Go home and color with some crayons little one.

Still spewing lies... as usual. ......

Yes, YOU are, as usual.

QUOTE:

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

END EXCERPT QUOTE

A brief excerpt from "Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth" (source link).

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

What Sandbox for Morons did you just crawl out of. Go home and color with some crayons little one.

Clever. Perhaps you can teach Cruciform how to have an actual dialogue.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Rome made Christianity it's state religion.....

So what. That means nothing.

....it was just a pagan church. ...

What was a pagan church. That is nonsensical. Before Rome made Christianity it's state religion the Church was the underground Church established by Peter and Paul. And it still is.

.....It did nothing but usurp whatever Peter's Seat was and became a gentile Pharisee.

Geeez Louise, that's gibberish. Are you high?

 

[HisServant]

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus.

Every Romanist I encounter makes the same claim, but when it is explored historically, it falls apart.

1.) It was illegal to be a Christian in Rome for the first 3 centuries after Jesus resurrection... if you were found to be a Christian, the sentence was death. (thrown to the lions and all that).

2.) None of the Apostles, except for Paul ever went to Rome... and Paul could get away with it because he was a Roman citizen and afforded certain privileges.

3.) Peter never went to Rome.. unless he had a time machine or transporter. His mission was to the 'circumcised'.. to the Jews.. there were very few Jews in Rome so it would also make no sense for Peter to go there.

4.) The Papal history for the first 3 centuries is a complete fabrication by Eusebius.. and he admits it in his writings.

5.) Rome is under a perpetual curse by God for its conquest and occupation of Israel.

6.) Archaeology proves that there was never a mother church in Rome. When Christianity did take root in Rome, it was to the poor slaves brought to Rome for far away conquests. They maintained their separate enclaves, separate churches and cemeteries and had a huge language barrier.

7.) The entire idea of a mother church in Rome was Romes fabrication, when Constantine supposedly converted and ordered Christianity to be the religion of the empire.. then he set his existing class of pagan priests to morph 'the way' to harmonize it with Roman sensibilities... what came out was a hybrid of Christian and Mithraic beliefs. This is why sacrimentalism came into christianity out of the blue... why eldership was converted into a priesthood (Rome had thousands of pagan priests on its payroll.. it just couldnt dismiss them.. so it force converted them. We also have evidence of pagan temples having their pagan god references chiseled off and replaces with pseudo Christian-Mithraic iconography... etc.

Romanism was invented in the 3rd century and has very little to do with Jesus and the Apostles teachings.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Every Romanist I encounter.......

Only lowlifes and scum use the word Romanist. It's like using the N-word. Grow up.

....Romanism was invented in the 3rd century......

That's a bald faced lie, as is the rest of your ignorant post. Uneducated imbeciles like you posing as Christians are a disgrace and an affront to God.

Re-quoting for the sake of truth:

QUOTE:

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

END EXCERPT QUOTE

A brief excerpt from "Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth" (source link).

 

[HisServant]

Only lowlifes and scum use the word Romanist. It's like using the N-word. Grow up.

The fact that it irritates you shows that there is a grain of truth in it. And I am grown up... but your church does everything it can to keep you a child. Open your eyes to the truth of history!

That's a bald faced lie, as is the rest of your ignorant post. Uneducated imbeciles like you posing as Christians are a disgrace and an affront to God.

Not a single thing I posted is a lie, it is all backed by history, scholars and the writings of pre-Romanist christian fathers.

Romanism is a specific religion that is unique to the Roman empire alone... it is the only proper term for what you believe in.

As far as the rest, its all demonstrable lies.... not really worth my time combating the devil that you are spewing.

The last paragraph for example, says that Jesus said something about 'Popes'.. when he never said that word or alluded to that office even once in his teachings. How could he anyhow?... since the term came from Mithraism!

 

[glassjester]

Rome made Christianity it's state religion, and beforehand, it was just a pagan church.

So if any country adopts a state religion, that religion must be false?

 

[bcbsr]

Catholicism is a sort of Neo-Circumcision sect. Their salvation scheme is much the same as the Circumcision, salvation being contingent upon compliance to their rules, rituals, Catholic Canon Law.

One could categorize them as part of the visible church, in that sense being "Christian". But their religion is about as from Scriptural Christianity as is Islam.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Catholicism is a sort of Neo-Circumcision sect. Their salvation scheme is much the same as the Circumcision, salvation being contingent upon compliance to their rules, rituals, Catholic Canon Law.

One could categorize them as part of the visible church, in that sense being "Christian". But their religion is about as from Scriptural Christianity as is Islam.

Agreed, their priests are very similar to the priests of Baal hired by the tribe of Dan, and their Magisterium is very similar to the scribes and Pharisees that rejected the LORD.

 

[chrysostom]

No they are not

the pope says we are

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

the pope says we are

:chuckle:

 

[Gurucam]

Can a Roman Catholic be a Christian?

If not, then why not?

(Do not other churches have their little popes?)

LA

Catholics must go through the following steps in order to become Christians:

1. They must become converted (cease being 'the dead' and become spiritually aware).
2. Then, each of them (on their own) must discern the Spirit of Jesus within each of their own hearts or spirits.
3. Then, each of them (on their own) must embrace, esteem, confess, use, promote and invoke the Spirit of Jesus.
4. Then, each of them (on their own) must be led by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus has in mind for each of them to know, pray for, say and do, as discerned within each of their own hearts or spirit,
5. Each of them, on their own, must obey the Spirit of Jesus even if he or she has to transgress the ten commandment and all canons etc..

Then Catholics become Christians. This is the only passage. This is how one is led by spirit and Spirit.

A Catholic is one whose spirit must be saved. They are people in the flesh.

Spiritually dead people are sent to Peter so that they might be converted. To be converted means to have one's spirit saved. This is according to:

1 Corinthians: 5 KJV N.T.
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

After being converted, Catholics do not stay in Peter's church. They leave Peter's church and embrace, esteem, use, promote and invoke Paul's commission.

People in Peter's church are in the flesh. People in Paul's commission are in spirit and Spirit.

The instruction, as confirmed literally in the KJV N.T, is: become converted and then become healed by Jesus. Being healed by Jesus is to achieve and have real time communion with the Spirit of Jesus through one's own heart or spirit when one is converted (i.e. when one's heart or spirit is no longer 'waxed gross':

Matthew: 18 KJV N.T.
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven

Being converted is not an arbitrary thing. It is a precise transformation that is clearly and literally confirmed in the KJV N.T.

The following is how one is converted:

Matthews: 13 KJV N.T.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

One must first be converted then one can be healed by Jesus, by following Jesus.

The following is how one follows and/or is healed by Jesus (i.e. after one is converted). One must search one's no longer waxed gross heart to discern the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of love within. Then one must be led, unconditionally by precisely what this Spirit has in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do, in real time, all the time.

Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
26 Likewise the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love) also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love), itself, maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit (of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love), because he (the Spirit of Jesus/Spirit of Truth/Spirit of Intercession/Spirit of Love) maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God (i.e. the Holy Spirit).

The above is how to be a Christian. This is not about the ten commandments, canons etc. This is not about esteeming, using, promoting and invoking the ten commandments. This is about transgressing the ten commandments so as to serve spirit/love, unconditionally.

This is not about the physical 'seen' and temporal, son of man, Jesus who is not lord and who appointed Peter.

This is about the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God, Jesus who is Lord and who appointed Paul.

 

[jimiduzit]

Constantine was a pagan history shows this

 

[chrysostom]

Constantine was a pagan history shows this

so why did he force the bishops together in 321?

 

[Gurucam]

1 Corinthians: 15 KJV N.T.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

The above confirm that the physical, 'seen' and temporal son of man Jesus, was earthly and not the Lord.

The above confirm that the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God, Jesus is Lord.

1. You are aware that Peter was given to anchor a church by the physical, 'seen' and temporal son of man Jesus, who was earthly and not the Lord. Also, in spite of traditional explanations, Jesus did turn to Peter and say:

Matthew: 16 King James Version (KJV)
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Also the follow confirm that Satan was given to serve a mission for Jesus:

1 Corinthians: 5 KJV N.T.
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

2. On the other hand you are aware that Paul was appoint to his commission by the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God, Jesus who is Lord.

2 Corinthians: 3 King James Version (KJV)
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

The liberty mentioned above is as follows:

Galatians: 5 King James Version (KJV)
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

People on earth soweth in two ways. One way is how people in Peter's church soweth (i.e. the physical and law/canons way). The other way is how people in Paul's commission soweth (i.e. the Spirit way):

Galatians: 6 King James Version (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Clearly those in Peter church soweth to the flesh. While those in Paul's commission soweth to Spirit.

There are two ends that are directly related to those two soweth:

Matthews: 25 KJV N.T.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: (for those who soweth to Spirit)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: (for those who soweth to flesh, the ten commandments and canons)

These are all literal and clear revelations in the KJV N.T.

The question is, did your pope etc. tell you this truth?

 

[jimiduzit]

Trusting in one's works for salvation is a bad thing. Believing genuine salvation does not produce works is just as dangerous.

 

[jimiduzit]

To get them to get along. He was a sun worshiper. He claimed to be a Christian and benefited from it. Christians went from being outcasts to acceptance. Study his life and you may be surprised at what you find out. Are you Catholic? I have just gotten some books on Catholicism. One is on customs and traditions. If I have questions can I message you?

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

What does the monstrance represent?

 

[jimiduzit]

What does the monstrance represent?

Remonstrance?

Sent from my SM-G920V using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Remonstrance?

Sent from my SM-G920V using TheologyOnline mobile app

?


I think their monstrance is about the "sun god".