Your preordained birth, circumstances, and experiences thereafter determined who you are and what you do.
Therefore, predestination.
'Free will' is something of an oxymoron.
Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Your preordained birth, circumstances, and experiences thereafter determined who you are and what you do.
Therefore, predestination.
'Free will' is something of an oxymoron.
The Bible is full of people that have a free will. God does NOT impose his will on anyone. He just lets the wicked hang themselves.
The Bible is expressed through men's perspective. Calvinism expresses the source.
Brother Ducky
New member
Would you please relate your first statement here to Romans 8:29-30? In particular, verse 30.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
It looks like the called have been predestined and that those he called [and you are saying all are called] are both justified and glorified.
Brother Ducky
New member
I do not believe I said that at all. And I am not sure that I know what you are trying to say.
I did say that if God says you and he are reconciled, you are truly reconciled. And it does not matter what the person thinks about the relationship, God thinks it is just grand. I will take God's side on this.
Seekingtruth21
New member
1 Corinthians 13:7 "Love... believes all things"
popsthebuilder
New member
That's not true. I was atheist with no real knowledge of the gospel, but slowly started to have hope out of need and inability to change myself, and at some point afterwards I was saved independent of any "church", and prior to ever reading scripture.
Peace
Are you "personally" able to make choices in your life, within
the confines of your 'belief system' that is?
Well, the Bible says, Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
The Bible also says, how can they believe unless a preacher is sent. If you
neither heard the Gospel preached nor placed your complete
faith in Jesus Christ as your Savior than, you can't be saved? You have
to abide by the word of God and not your feelings.
You may not be truly headed for eternal life? Salvation isn't a feeling, it's
a personal relationship with God through faith in His Son's death and
resurrection.
Calvinism is a false doctrine created by mere men.
popsthebuilder
New member
I heard and do hear the word of GOD yet may not have ever heard I if not for hope.
Please reference where scripture says the Word of GOD must come from a preacher, and not the high priest(Christ).
Thanks.
Oh, and I never said I was sealed, or without waver, or perfect in Christ, only an arrogant proud fool would proclaim such. Or someone ho actually knows without a doubt that they are without sin and do God's will in all things. As of yet, I am neither.
Peace
HisServant
New member
Scripture stats that people can come to him without hearing a verse of scripture, so those people will have no excuse. Observing nature and the world.. God's handiwork is enough at times.
It all depends on God's will and not ours.
It all depends on God's will and not ours.
No one has been predestinated to heaven or to hell in Romans 8:29, 30. You are assuming that is what the scripture is saying.
All are called, but not all answer the call or respond to the call. Paul brings this out in Hebrews 4:2. Not all believe or embrace the Gospel as a means of salvation when they hear it.
No, it is not dependent on God's will. God imposses his will on no one. God does not send people to hell. They send themselves there.
They are without an excuse because of what God has revealed to them, Romans 1:18-20.
Calvinism expresses what must be true, if one believes that God is actually God.
Calvinism is a false doctrine that was created by a heretical tyrant in the mid 1500,s.
There is no scripture about anyone being predestinated to heaven or to hell in the whole Bible.
God imposes salvation on no one. If he did he would be unjust.
That's your opinion and you're welcome to believe it. However,
I really don't think your opinion has universal acceptance/appeal.
Unless one is a follower of John Calvin and his ilk.
Romans 10:14--"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed?
and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall
they hear without a preacher?"
What's your testimony of how you came to Christ? I've
yet to hear a Calvinist give a testimony of how they
came to Christ? Why don't you be the first?
Brother Ducky
New member
Just looking at verse 30 for the moment:
And those whom he predestined he also called,
and those whom he called he also justified,
and those whom he justified he also glorified.
If we are going to take God, through Paul at his word we have to say that there are some [at least] who are predestined. And if we follow the words of Paul those who are predestined are also gifted with some other things; being called, being justified, and being glorified.
Note that all of these things are the working of God alone. There is no "accepting" the works of God.
I understand that Paul does not use the term Heaven here. If you wish to argue that "glorified" does not mean at least being in Heaven, go for it.
If God is indeed calling everyone to himself, as you insist, and if we take Paul at his word, then universalism inescapably follows.
Since it is clear that Paul is not a universalist, let us just assume that Pate is incorrect.