BRXII Battle talk

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Balder

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logos_x said:
If you had heard arguments for Christain Universalism...would you have left?
If I had heard the arguments of Christian Universalism, that likely would have influenced me not to leave. There were other elements as well, such as the dearth of serious Christian contemplative practice in modern, mainstream Christianity. If I'd encountered Father Thomas Keating's work then too, I might not have left. At least, I might not have started looking elsewhere.

Honestly, though, I can't say I regret leaving, since I've discovered a wonderfully profound and beautiful world outside of Christianity as well.
 

logos_x

New member
Balder said:
If I had heard the arguments of Christian Universalism, that likely would have influenced me not to leave. There were other elements as well, such as the dearth of serious Christian contemplative practice in modern, mainstream Christianity. If I'd encountered Father Thomas Keating's work then too, I might not have left. At least, I might not have started looking elsewhere.

Honestly, though, I can't say I regret leaving, since I've discovered a wonderfully profound and beautiful world outside of Christianity as well.

Indeed.
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
logos_x said:
If you had heard arguments for Christain Universalism...would you have left?

Left what? By his own admission on another thread he left a religion named Chrisitanity. Is that what keeps you in Christianity? Favorite doctrines? Seems a bit shallow doesn't it?
 

Ecumenicist

New member
Aimiel said:
For universalism to be true, too many scriptures have to be 're-interpreted' or twisted (if not left out altogether). The rich man Jesus described is still in hell. Come judgement day, he'll be turned away to everlasting torment in the Lake of Fire prepared for the devil and his angels. The smoke which arises from his torment will ascend forever. No matter how you look at it, his torment must continue forever in order for the smoke arising from that torment to arise forever. Maybe look at The Word of God as meaning what It says: the wages of sin is death, after death comes judgement and only those washed in The Blood of The Lamb will be allowed into Heaven. Everyone else goes to the Lake of Fire, forever. Thank God that salvation is available. It is only available to the living. Get busy. Tell others about this Salvation. :thumb:


For ET to be true, the very nature of God has to be falsely portrayed.

God is Good.
 

Balder

New member
Nineveh said:
Left what? By his own admission on another thread he left a religion named Chrisitanity. Is that what keeps you in Christianity? Favorite doctrines? Seems a bit shallow doesn't it?
I found a number of Christian doctrines to be too shallow, simplistic, or in some cases, cruel and immoral, to be compelling as accurate and infallible "portraits" of the absolute truth that Christians claim they possess.
 

PKevman

New member
logos_x said:

So a pagan says he has found a wonderful world outside of Christianity and your response is "indeed"? Stephen in all seriousness why would you affirm someone who is trusting in a false religion? Is Jesus Christ not the "Way the, the Truth, and the Life"?

I am beginning to think that our differences are far greater than the definitions of a few words........
 

PKevman

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There is nothing more profound and beautiful than having a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Anything else leaves a person empty and unfulfilled.
 

Memento Mori

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PastorKevin said:
There is nothing more profound and beautiful than having a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Anything else leaves a person empty and unfulfilled.


True. Now, who is empty from our omnipotent God?
 

Balder

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Jesus himself is empty. That's the meaning of kenosis. That's the essence of perichoresis. Fullness in self-emptying.
 

red77

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Dave Miller said:
For ET to be true, the very nature of God has to be falsely portrayed.

God is Good.

God is Love - and love does no harm, ET makes out that God is not in fact love but that love is just one of his characteristics, which ultimately ends up being outdone by his wrath......:rain:
 

Ecumenicist

New member
red77 said:
God is Love - and love does no harm, ET makes out that God is not in fact love but that love is just one of his characteristics, which ultimately ends up being outdone by his wrath......:rain:

Love is good too! Passes the test! (and its my banner :) )
 

red77

New member
One of the worst things about ET is how arbitrary it makes the nature of God, most of those who believe in it accept that the casualty rates are immense in relation to those who are spared the grief and agony, but whats worse is that many people could suffer eternal pain because of the actions or inactions of other frail human beings, Jesus himself said that with man his own salvation was impossible but with God all kinds of things are possible, is it really not obvious that the world God created - and everyone and everything in it - is unredeemable for God whatever mankind does? Is mans will more powerful than God's?

Free will doesnt enter into the argument because if its 'wrong' for God to bring people to a knowledge of the truth because it infringes it - then how is it not also wrong to force people into a state of perpetual suffering with no chance of escape?

ET falls down on virtually everything, God - the divine creator of the universe - who states clearly in the word that all things are done in conformity to the PURPOSE of his will - cannot redeem his entire creation, its impossible for God, cant be done.......all kinds of things ARE possible for God but nope - not this one, it doesnt matter that God came to save the world - and that he desires all to come to the truth - God just cant do it because of his pesky creations....

So - the only thing to be done is to torment and agonise the majority of his creation while the relative handful who are spared can celebrate accordingly,
With ET God redeems probably less than 20% of his own creation, I think God can do better than that no matter what any human would tell me........
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Nineveh said:
The worst thing about doctrines made by men are they offer false hope and comfort instead of Truth.
Amen. Universalism is simply the first lie ("You shall not surely die.") repackaged.
 

logos_x

New member
My point was...quite obviously...that one of the reasons Balder left "Christianity" is probably the picture that the doctrine of eternal torment paints of God.

One other point. Salvation is in Christ...not "christianity".

Now...my response was "indeed" because I understand some of why Balder left Christinity.
The further question I would ask Balder is if He had in mind leaving Christ Himself...or just a particular religion...
 

Rockhead

New member
Aimiel said:
Thank God that salvation is available. It is only available to the living. Get busy. Tell others about this Salvation. :thumb:

Offer expires in 30 days, 60 days, 60 years? God loves you now, but alas, his love has limits? Get busy, tell others about this salvation centered in the One whose mercy endureth forever? :chuckle:
 
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