Blasphemy?

Angel4Truth

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I received an infraction for this post of mine...

Original Post:
https://xenforo.theologyonline.com/posts/4178904/


This was the reason apparently:



I think the reason is dumb
( even if we assume that TO is a Christian forum and only that) for these reasons of mine:

You don't have to assume it, when you signed up you agreed that it was ( A christian forum, and that its Knights house party and that you understood there is bias about it (leaning to right wing and fundamental Christianity and you still signed up agreeing)

As such, your reason for complaining is dumb.
 

Angel4Truth

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Both Christians and Muslims claim to worship the God of Abraham, of Israel, of Noah and of Adam - one God.

A claim doesn't make it a true claim. Allah has no son, hence cannot possibly be the God of Christianity.

Muslims reject the diety of Christ also, and relegate Him to a mere prophet and also deny the death and resurrection of Christ.

Being that Christ said He was the only way to the Father, it eliminates all other ways, including Islam and God does not share His glory with another.
 

Repentance

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A claim doesn't make it a true claim. Allah has no son, hence cannot possibly be the God of Christianity.

Muslims reject the diety of Christ also, and relegate Him to a mere prophet and also deny the death and resurrection of Christ.

Being that Christ said He was the only way to the Father, it eliminates all other ways, including Islam and God does not share His glory with another.

If Allah = God and not necessarily the God of the Koran, would you still be arguing against Allah being the God of Abraham? Why be so aggressive? Why not tell me that I have little and corrupted knowledge of Allah?

Christ is the only "way" to Allah for the children of Israel and the world that heard of him just like Moses once was. Christ is still the only "way" to Allah for the Jews. No Jew would be successful if he rejects His King and Messiah.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
Christ is the only "way" to Allah for the children of Israel and the world that heard of him just like Moses once was. Christ is still the only "way" to Allah for the Jews. No Jew would be successful if he rejects His King and Messiah.
No one can come to God, except through Christ. Jesus said so, Himself.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is The One and ONLY Way to God. He is The One and ONLY Truth about God. He is The One and ONLY Eternal Life. If you don't drink His Blood and eat His Flesh: you have NO LIFE in you.

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Rejecting Christ, Whom God announced as His Son, in the hearing of witnesses, is your biggest mistake. Following the Koran is just your second biggest mistake.
 

Angel4Truth

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If Allah = God and not necessarily the God of the Koran, would you still be arguing against Allah being the God of Abraham? Why be so aggressive?

You who ok the killing of those who reject Islam, accuses me of being aggressive for saying Jesus said He is the only way?

Thats rich. Allah is NOT the God of abraham. Allah is an invention.
 

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You who ok the killing of those who reject Islam, accuses me of being aggressive for saying Jesus said He is the only way?

Thats rich. Allah is NOT the God of abraham. Allah is an invention.
Just simply rejecting Islam does not invoke the death penalty. When did I claim so?
 

Repentance

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No one can come to God, except through Christ. Jesus said so, Himself.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He is The One and ONLY Way to God. He is The One and ONLY Truth about God. He is The One and ONLY Eternal Life. If you don't drink His Blood and eat His Flesh: you have NO LIFE in you.

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Rejecting Christ, Whom God announced as His Son, in the hearing of witnesses, is your biggest mistake. Following the Koran is just your second biggest mistake.

What about the people before Christ? What about those who have not heard of Christ? God so loved the world?

Jesus was sent to Israel and is their Messiah and King. Anyone who has heard his name and reject him will not be successful. I have not rejected him. I only attribute all praise and glory to God and ask God for guidance and light.
 

Angel4Truth

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Just simply rejecting Islam does not invoke the death penalty. When did I claim so?

If you claim not, then you are a liar who does not follow your holy book.

Question:

Does Islam proscribe the death penalty for Muslims who wish to embrace another religion?


Answer:

Yes. Those who turn their back on Islam are to be executed. This is confirmed by the words and deeds of Muhammad. The only freedom of belief in Islam is the freedom to become Muslim.

Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

Other verses that seem to support the many Hadith demanding death for apostates are Qur'an verses 2:217, 9:73-74, 88:21, 5:54, and 9:66.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' " Note that there is no distinction as to how that Muslim came to be a Muslim.



Bukhari (83:37) - "Allah's Apostle never killed anyone except in one of the following three situations: (1) A person who killed somebody unjustly, was killed (in Qisas,) (2) a married person who committed illegal sexual intercourse and (3) a man who fought against Allah and His Apostle and deserted Islam and became an apostate."



Bukhari (84:57) - [In the words of] "Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"



Bukhari (89:271) - A man who embraces Islam, then reverts to Judaism is to be killed according to "the verdict of Allah and his apostle."



Bukhari (84:58) - "There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, 'Who is this (man)?' Abu Muisa said, 'He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism.' Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, 'I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice.' Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, 'Then we discussed the night prayers'"



Bukhari (84:64-65) - "Allah's Apostle: 'During the last days there will appear some young foolish people who will say the best words but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will have no faith) and will go out from (leave) their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection.'"



Abu Dawud (4346) - "Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him?" Muhammad is chastising his companions for allowing an apostate to "repent" under duress. (The person in question was Muhammad's former scribe who left him after doubting the authenticity of divine "revelations" upon finding out that he could suggest grammatical changes. He was brought back to Muhammad after having been captured in Medina).

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) o8.1 - "When a person who has reached puberty and is sane voluntarily apostatizes from Islam, he deserves to be killed." (o8.4 affirms that there is no penalty for killing an apostate).
 

Aimiel

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What about the people before Christ? What about those who have not heard of Christ? God so loved the world?
Could The Judge of The Universe do anything that is un-just?
Jesus was sent to Israel and is their Messiah and King. Anyone who has heard his name and reject him will not be successful. I have not rejected him. I only attribute all praise and glory to God and ask God for guidance and light.
If you don't believe His Words you're rejecting Him. He has more proof of His Life in the four Gospels than all others mentioned in antiquity. He is The Son of God. You reject Him every time you pray to your false god. He is The Only Saviour. You need Him more than ever every single day.
 

The Barbarian

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G.O. fakes a statement and pretends Barbarian said it:
Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
Barbarian observes:
I always side with the opponents of the Bible instead of the people who believe it.


G.O., do you think anyone will actually believe you? Given your recent behavior, who would be stupid enough to think you didn't fake your "quote?"

G.O. tries to change the subject:
You seem to be under the delusion that Muslims will be saved because they claim that Allah is the God of Abraham.

Nice try. I'm just pointing out that they, like Jews and Christians, worship the God of Abraham.

I am amazed that you see no real difference between Muslims and Catholics.

I pointed out that Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus is God. I'm not really surprised that you don't think that's a "real difference." I suppose no one else is surprised, either. You're not smart enough to do what you're trying to do here. Honesty has a lot more to commend it, but you should by now at least realize it's not safe to be dishonest.
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
I'm just pointing out that they, like Jews and Christians, worship the God of Abraham.
In order to believe that: one must first believe that God inspired the Koran. Why profess Christianity when in-point-of-fact all you are is a Muslim apologist? :duh:
 

Aimiel

Well-known member
I'm just pointing out that they, like Jews and Christians, worship the God of Abraham.
In order to believe that: one must first believe that God inspired the Koran. Why profess Christianity when in-point-of-fact all you are is a Muslim apologist? :duh:
 

Lon

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How can they serve God when they don't know Him In the first place? They are serving themselves, probably having being led astray.
Yes, or never being His in the first place. I don't even believe you can be born a Muslim. You have to learn what a Muslim is. The Jews have this mixed up. We are never born into religion, but religious families and communities. This is why children born in Muslim homes, should not be killed if they become Christians as adults. You can't be a Muslim unless you have believed the Koran.

I'll ask you a simple question? DO you KNOW God?
It isn't as important that I know Him, in my limited way, but that He knows me.
Romans 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.
Matthew 7:21-23 Shows that is it more important for God to know us, than that we know Him. We have to be on His list, albeit the vise versa is a given.
If you do how do you serve/worship Him?
ONLY as new creations. Ephesians 2:8-10


No I did not and I explained what I meant.
:idunno:You only clarified that you meant 'trinitarian' Christians???



What they do has no basis in the Quran or divine Islamic teachings. Sometimes I feel that they look for justification and example in the OT rather than the Quran. I might be right. They have hijacked the mission of Islam. Muslims are supposed to be the force that calls for the implementation of the laws of God -banning all the vices that brings the wrath of God - homosexuality, abortion, intoxicants and drugs, demonic music, the adultery of the eye, interest, and false religion.
"They" you mean the terrorists?
 

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If you claim not, then you are a liar who does not follow your holy book.

There is always difference in opinion, but the majority of Islamic scholarship disagree with the opinion that the death penalty is the punishment for apostasy in this world. The ahadith that suggests that it is should be put in its correct context.

Look at these Quranic verses:

“There is no compulsion in religion — the right way is indeed clearly distinct from error.”— 2:256

“The Truth is from your Lord; so let him who please believe and let him who please disbelieve.” — 18:29

“We have truly shown him the way; he may be thankful or unthankful.” — 76:3

“Clear proofs have indeed come to you from your Lord: so whoever sees, it is for his own good; and whoever is blind, it is to his own harm. And I am not a keeper over you.” — 6:104

“If you do good, you do good for your own souls. And if you do evil, it is for them.” — 17:7

“If they accept Islam, then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, your duty (O Prophet) is only to deliver the message.” — 3:20

“And obey Allah and obey the Messenger; but if you turn away, the duty of Our Messenger is only to deliver the message clearly.” — 64:12; see also 5:92

“Say (to people): Obey Allah and obey the Messenger. But if you turn away, he is responsible for the duty imposed on him, and you are responsible for the duty imposed on you. And if you obey him, you go aright. And the Messenger’s duty is only to deliver (the message) plainly.” — 24:54

“O people, the truth has indeed come to you from your Lord; so whoever goes aright, goes aright only for the good of his own soul; and whoever errs, errs only to its detriment. And I am not a custodian over you.” — 10:108

“Surely We have revealed to you (O Prophet) the Book with truth for people. So whoever follows the right way, it is for his own soul, and whoever errs, he errs only to its detriment. And you are not a custodian over them.” — 39:41

“We have not appointed you (O Prophet) a keeper over them, and you are not placed in charge of them.” — 6:107

“Your duty (O Prophet) is only the delivery of the message, and Ours (God’s) is to call (people) to account.” — 13:40

“And if your Lord had pleased, all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them. Will you then force people till they are believers?” — 10:99

“They will not cease fighting you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can. And whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever — these it is whose works go for nothing in this world and the Hereafter.” — 2:217

“O you who believe, should anyone of you turn back from his religion, then Allah will bring a people whom He loves and who love Him.” — 5:54

“Those who disbelieve after their believing, then increase in disbelief, their repentance is not accepted, and these are they that go astray.” — 3:90

“Those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor guide them in the (right) way.” — 4:137

“And a party of the People of the Book say: Avow belief in that which has been revealed to those who believe, in the first part of the day, and disbelieve in the latter part of it, perhaps they may turn back.” — 3:72

Especially the last two quotes - they suggest the possibility of open disbelief without any fear of death.

The death penalty is only for the crime of treason and waging war after apostasy. One can deconvert and still live with the Muslims but if it is coupled with treason and corruption then the punishment is death. Abandoning the Muslims is the same as Committing treason because at that time there was only one Muslim community and the only reason for a Muslim to join the Kuffar communities would be for treason.

If you claim not, then you are a liar who does not follow your holy book.

I challenge you to bring up any verse in the Quran that calls for the death penalty for apostasy. I follow my Holy Book 100%.

It's you who have abandoned the laws of the Torah. Why have you? Did Jesus abrogate the law? He did not. And still you throw away your Holy Book. This is hypocrisy.

Deuteronomy 13:6-9 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying: Let us go and worship other gods (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other, or gods of other religions), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people."

Deuteronomy 17:3-5 "And he should go and worship other gods and bow down to them or to the sun or the moon or all the army of the heavens, .....and you must stone such one with stones and such one must die."

2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

If this was indeed NOT wrong once upon a time why would you now take up the high moral ground? Just please...
 

Angel4Truth

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I challenge you to bring up any verse in the Quran that calls for the death penalty for apostasy. I follow my Holy Book 100%.
.

Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."
 
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