God_Is_Truth said:
I don't think this is right. God reveals himself in nature, through morality, through reason. I agree that what we know about God apart from the Bible is limited, but I do believe we can get a fair picture of God without it. Don't you agree?
No. Like Rom 1:20 states, the only thing we get from nature is that God exists. We cannot, outside of Biblical reference, conjur up any doctrines or theologies about God based simply upon what we feel or observe in nature. If so, anythng could be taken as truth about God. The Bible must be the absolute truth. If not, Joe Shmuck could say he believes God is ______ (fill in the blank) based upon his observations in nature, and whose to say he's wrong?
Well have you read Luke 13?
4"Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?
5"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."
Isn't Jesus's point here that the people were not crushed as a punishment from God, but that it was something that happened on it's own?
Yes, I've read it. I believe the first part of your statement, but not the second. I don't see Jesus inferring that it was an accident.
Jesus says that the people who died were not any worse than the others and so isn't he saying that the tower falling was not a specific judgment from God?
Yes. But that doesn't mean it was an accident either. Taking Isaiah 45:7 in consideration, and other countless times where God was behind catastrophe, I cannot conclude that the tower falling was a mere 'accident'.
How would you interpret this passage?
Taken from post #2205 of this thread:
I see this statement from Christ as a means to correct His disciples' misunderstanding on why people suffer from tragedy. Their common understanding of such an event as a tower falling on people, or a person being born blind, was that it was a form of punishment from God for their wrong doing. But Christ is trying to illustrate that the men who died tragically in Siloam were no worse than anybody else. Just like in John 9; the disciples, upon seeing a blind man from birth, immediately question Christ as to the cause of his blindness. "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?" Jesus replied, "It was not because of his sins or his parents' sins. He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him".
Those people who died in Shiloam didn't die because they were horrible sinners; the guy in John 9 wasn't born blind because of his parent's sins; not everyone is given a disease, or a life of suffering, because they sinned or disobeyed God. The rain falls on the just and the unjust (Matt. 5:45). God uses tragedy to display His glory.
Yes I agree that God has caused many things in history covering a wide range of calamity. But just because he has done many things does not necessarily mean he did them all, correct? Logically, one can be responsible for many things, even many types of things, and not be responsible for causing all of them. Don't you agree?
If we speak of humans, yes. But we are talking about God. If the Bible says God controls the weather, then He controls the weather. There is no proof that anyone or anything else controls the weather. If God causes diseases, even if it is via a secondary cause, such as Satan, then God causes diseases.
I do not beleive things just 'randomly' happen. The Bible says that even God controls which way the lot is cast (Proverbs 16:33) and that the disciples trusted God's decision by casting lots (Acts 1:26)! Nothing is left to chance.
Well then I think we have a problem because the Bible is not the only source of truth we have about God.
If it isn't, anything goes. Anyone could say God is a fruitcake and whose to prove them wrong?
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