Z Man said:
I'm not going to post every verse that says God caused a disease or illness. The Bible proves it itself. You can find them yourself through your own study.
Even if you did, it wouldn't establish your thesis. Do you know how to do anything but proof text, Z Man? It that really how you think something is established Biblically?
The Bible says that God was the cause of an illness in certain individuals - I'm sure we could both agree on that. To me, that's enough evidence to suggest that God causes disease. I don't understand why you need more. Why isn't Scripture enough for you? God Himself said He causes illness, and yet you still want more proof. What better proof is there? Are you waiting for a certain human being to say God causes illness to believe? Are you waiting for a certain amount of cases to prove God causes illness? Who better than God to say it Himself to prove a point?
Even if you were to establish that God caused an illness that would not prove or even suggest that God causes ALL illnesses! How is that hard to understand Z Man? In fact, I know you do understand it and are ignoring the point.
If you believe God causes some illness, but not all of it, then who or what causes it in other instances? What Scripture examples do you have to prove your case?
I am not going to be baited into playing like you've made an argument sufficient enough to justify answering this question. It is you who are positing that God causes all disease and it is you who have to prove it. A lack of having been proved wrong does not prove you right!
I don't have to. Read it yourself. Besides, I've provided adequate Scripture to make a valid point. For crying out loud, God Himself says He causes calamity, disease, and disabilities! What more do you want?
No one has denied that God has caused some people to have a disease but that is a far cry from proving that He causes all disease! That is your argument! Deny it all you want but it is and you know it.
We're looking for the cause of weather, biology, physics - not how it works. We know the basic principles behind weather, etc. But the textbooks will never tell us the ultimate cause. The Bible, however, does! The Bible clearly tells us that God is in control of the weather (no matter how much Knight disapproves), creates peace and calamity, causes disabilities, and on and on. God is the primary cause behind everything. My conclusion is based upon what I have read in Scriptures numerous times, from numerous cases and scenarios. Biblical evidence isn't good enough for you, thus the reason I asked what other sources do you suppose?
Now you've changed the subject altogether. Everyone knows that God created everything that exists and so if God hadn't created the Earth, no weather would ever have happened at all. But that is not the same point you are making. You are suggesting more than that God has creation under control but that He is in meticulous control of every minute event that happens. That is not Biblical and you have come nowhere even remotely close to even making a Biblical case for such a claim never mind actually having established it as the truth.
Not if I want to find out if God is the cause.
Yes even then Z Man. I'm not going to repeat the argument again. Your argument is fallacious. I've not simply made a case for it, I've proven it. By the rules of necessary inference (logic) your argument is fallacious, by definition. It is therefore of no use in proving or even making a case for your position. If you want to make a case for it using some other valid form of argument then I will be happy to engage you on that argument but you are not going to get me to go on the defensive here by making a counter argument as though you've put forward something of substance that need countering. As it stands your argument is soundly refuted and I'm completely content to leave in that condition for as long as you wish to wallow around in the aftermath.
The Biblical texts are my qualification! How can you state that we cannot make conclusions based upon the 'unqualified' Scriptures???
God Himself says He causes calamity, disease, and disability. HE SAID SO HIMSELF! Still not good enough for you? What more do you want Clete?
I want for you to stop making the same fallacious argument over and over again even after having it directly pointed out to you!
Let me break it down for you since you are seemingly blind to how you just made the exact argument that you are fixing to deny having made in the next sentence.
"God Himself says He causes calamity, disease, and disability. HE SAID SO HIMSELF!"
That's a general statement Z Man. See how there is no "all" present in that sentence? You take this general statement which basically says nothing more than that there are diseased and calamities etc that have been caused by God (which no one has denied) and you tack on the following conclusion...
"Therefore God causes all calamity, disease, etc."
Thus you argue that what is true in general is true universally and without qualification. (i.e. for "qualification" read "exception").
Of course that's a horrible argument, but it's definitly not mine.
I've just proven, once again, that it is. You just got through presenting a perfect example of 'dicto simpliciter".
I've never argued that God only causes some catastrophes - my argument has always been that God causes all catastrophes in the Bible, thus we can reasonably conclude that He causes them all in our lives and others as well.
In order to make this argument you have to have first established the premise upon which it is based. That premise being that God caused all catastrophes in the Bible. You have not established that Z Man, you've only made the claim and proof-texted us all to death.
You've embarassed yourself. You have e-mailed a guy a false statement about me, and then posted it on this website, and it backfires on you. Why don't you try sending him another e-mail and this time tell the truth. Tell him that my argument is that God caused all catastrophes to occur in the Bible, thus God causes all catastrophes to occur. I'm sure he'll tell you that's legite (unless he doesn't believe the Scriptures are truth).
Next time, be a little more careful about what you say of others so you won't look so dumb. :dunce:
I don't know how obvious its been but I sort of think it's been obvious enough that I have been very respectful and substantive with you. The only possible exception is my having posted that email which you might have found offensive but even it was posted as a substantive (if not also funny) means of establishing my point against your argument. I'd appreciate no more blatant insults.
Resting in Him,
Clete