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Adam and or Eve had all the viruses.

The third link provided the most information (for me) so I include it here. I haven't read everything I've linked in these posts. You can tell me where I am wrong or making the wrong assumptions. I won't take offense. I'm not a doctor, but an engineer who has built Level 2-3 Labs and have worked with some nasty substances. I am well read on viruses. One thing you'll notice, Coronavirus is listed under a variety of names.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-0695-z

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2452014420301667
 
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Clete

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The third link provided the most information (for me) so I include it here. I haven't read everything I've linked in these posts. You can tell me where I am wrong or making the wrong assumptions. I won't take offense. I'm not a doctor, but an engineer who has built Level 2-3 Labs and have worked with some nasty substances. I am well read on viruses. One thing you'll notice, Coronavirus is listed under a variety of names.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41564-020-0695-z

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2452014420301667

Okay, so the only one of the six you linked to that said anything at all about how many variants of SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) there are was the sciencedirect.com link.

Here the excerpt....
.
8. Genomic variations in SARS-CoV-2
The genetic information of any life is preserved in its genome, and the annotation is the first step to explain the sequence. While the length of the SARS-CoV genome is above ~29 kb, it appears that only a few coding genes do not match the general characteristics of the viral genome and the group of minimal hereditary data. In previous studies, 156 variants were found in 95 samples available on NCBI databases and 116 variants were identified uniquely. In addition, these variants have 46 missense, 52 synonymous, 2 insertions, 1 deletion, and 14 non-coding alleles. The most common variant were found 8782C>T (ORF1ab) in 13 samples, 28144T>C (ORF8) in 14 samples and 29095C>T (N) in 8 samples. The 8782C>T and 28144T>C coincided. Also, 29095C>T was located in one of these subsets. Both 8782C>T and 29095C>T were synonymous; However, 28144T>C causes amino acids to replace L84S in ORF8. For 46 missense variants, ORF1ab has 24 variants, that occupies 2/3 of the entire genome. All non-coding mutations are within 3′UTR or 5′UTR regions that have C>T changes (Rozhgar et al., 2020).​

The problem here is that this is talking about extremely tiny differences in the genetic code of the virus many of which are not even coding genes and would have no effect at all on which proteins are produced, how they fold or how they function. They amount to just so much genetic noise.

This would explain why you think that there are more variants of the virus than you can count but nothing that this article is discussing (as best as I can decipher - like you I'm no doctor or virologist) has to do with changes that would warrant calling any of these different strains of the virus. If anything, these articles you've linked to explain how COVID-19 is itself a strain of SARS and that what I said before is likely correct and that any extant variant of COVID-19 is still a COVID-19 virus and any vaccine developed for one will very likely be effective against them all.

Another thing that lends credibility to that point is that if it were the case that vaccines only work on one single variant of the virus, then imagine how poor the clinical trial results would be. Even if there are only six then that would bring an efficacy rate of 17% at best. There's no way that such a rate would even get to stage two testing, never mind stage three testing. This would, of course, get much worse when you start talking about hundreds of variants.

Clete
 
I look at the annual flu shot. The annual flu shot is mostly based on a guess as to what flu viruses will be prevalent during the flu season. It changes year to year. My personal history has shown I only get the flu when I get the flu shot. I've heard all the arguments that this can't be true, yet it is.
 

Clete

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I look at the annual flu shot. The annual flu shot is mostly based on a guess as to what flu viruses will be prevalent during the flu season. It changes year to year. My personal history has shown I only get the flu when I get the flu shot. I've heard all the arguments that this can't be true, yet it is.

No, actually it isn't. It is far more than a mere guess which is why they get very nearly always get it right. When they don't the influenza death tole starts to spike like crazy and they pull out all the stops to get the correct vaccine out. It's a process that plays out every six months which means that it basically never stops because you probably couldn't do it any more frequently than that on an ongoing basis.

Your thinking that you get the flu after getting a flu shot is a product of confirmation bias. It isn't real. If it were, they wouldn't even give a flu shot in the first place.


I see no reason to be concerned about a rush to find a vaccine for virus that is killing millions of people all over the world. These kind of pandemics don't happen but once a century or so and we have the technology and we have a President that isn't interested in government bureaucracies putting the breaks on everything in the name of safety when there's already millions of people dead because of this disease. It's not as if they're going all wild west on us here and calling every which-doctor they can find with a voodoo spell to cast. They are going through scientifically valid clinical trials that do have to show real results. It's almost entirely just the bureaucratic maze of reviews and approvals and re-reviews and re-approvals that have been taken out of the way of getting the science part of it actually done. Every step of the process has been looked at and anything that doesn't have to do with actual research, data collection, production, efficacy and patient safety (i.e. science) has been cut from the process, or at least it has been to a far greater degree than anyone other than Trump would have even attempted or even thought possible, never mind actually accomplished.
 

Clete

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Clete,

You may find the link below of some value.
Cool article. Stuff like that, where someone has not only thought of but actually followed through and done things like searching through sewage to get data on human virus loads. Amazing!


The variants are sometimes on the level of a single nucleotide! Meaning that it isn't a different virus at all. It's far less than the difference between having blue eyes vs. having brown eyes. Such differences would almost certainly not have any effect on whether a vaccine is going to be effective against it.
 
No, actually it isn't. It is far more than a mere guess which is why they get very nearly always get it right. When they don't the influenza death tole starts to spike like crazy and they pull out all the stops to get the correct vaccine out. It's a process that plays out every six months which means that it basically never stops because you probably couldn't do it any more frequently than that on an ongoing basis.

Agree to disagree.

Your thinking that you get the flu after getting a flu shot is a product of confirmation bias. It isn't real. If it were, they wouldn't even give a flu shot in the first place.

Agree to disagree.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Agree to disagree.



Agree to disagree.

No, I won't agree to disagree! Not that I have any desire to make an enemy of you but agreeing to disagree makes me an ally of things that I just cannot permit to go unchallenged. The fact is, as I think I've pretty well established with your own testimony is that you're wrong and are here spreading a bunch of nonsense about Adam and Eve having had every virus (which is obvious stupidity) and then, along with that, a bunch of conspiratorial crap about the search for a vaccine for covid-19 being less than a great idea and implying that the flu shot, which saves literally hundreds of thousands of lives every year, doesn't really work.

All you've managed to prove is that you aren't stupid and that you can read and, at the very least, know how to access the CDC website and do Google searches for decent information. In short, you've proven that you're without excuse and ought to repent of this ridiculousness. I can't imagine the damage that is done to the reputation of the gospel when Christians go spreading this kind of mindless nonsense around. Just what is it that you think you're accomplishing, anyway? I just do not get it. Heaven forbid that you allow simple, sober-minded, dispassionate, rational arguments to persuade you away from any position you ever take it upon yourself to post on a web forum! That would obviously be too much to ask.
 

Caino

Well-known member
Viruses are not technically alive outside of a host. And just how long they can exist outside a host is unknown. So, Adam and Eve had to have had most if not all the viruses by kind, and they lived close to a 1000 years . . . I say that is interesting.

Seeds and pollen, which are in some ways similar to viruses, can remain dormant for thousand(s) of years and in many cases largely unaffected by entropy, in that they still function. But a virus, we don’t know just how long they can exist outside a host and or entropy’s affect on their function.

I think it is very likely that Adam and Eve were rarely ill, we know they lived very long lives, and they had to have had all the viruses. Those things can’t be a coincidences . . . in my world view those items are what I call, clues. Clues to a long healthy life on earth.

Another clue is the bowhead whale, it just “happens” to be the longest living animal on earth at 200 years. And then there is the sea turtle, some say turtles may live 400 or 500 years, we just don’t know. Is it a coincidence that both of the longest living creatures on earth, are creatures that would not have been virus isolated during Noah’s flood? And without any question there are more viruses in the ocean than there are on dry land, yet that is where we find the longest living creatures. Maybe viruses help humans and animals deal with the effects of entropy?

How about Noah . . . between the occupants of the Ark, it is likely that most all the viruses were present but probably not all. Could that be a contributing factor to the reduction in the life spans of animals post flood?

Do all the viruses that existed in Eden still exist? I think it is likely they all do. Viruses are part of God’s creation and His creation is not easily put asunder.

It is important that Christians discover why God made viruses and show how they are good, and facilitate humans in living long healthy lives.

Viruses could be nothing more than a simple but very effective incentive plan for us to live abundantly, and when we are close to death, in our old age, viruses help push us on to the next place in a fitting manner. Or, viruses could be much more complicated in the scheme of life on earth in dealing with entropy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5580475/

“All” Christians, today, believe that part of God’s creation, i.e., viruses, are bad. That belief is an untenable position for the creationist/ Christian/ Christianity to survive in. That context for life has churches closed, while drugs and liquor thrive . . . where masked Christian leaders stand silently by while their millions of followers are cowering in fear over God’s good creation. It is tragic.
The earth was already populated with evolved life including viruses and genetic diseases when Adam and Eve materialized from another world. The evidence is in the fragment of truth left by the Hebrew authors of Genesis concerning Cains fear of going out away from Adam and Eve to a hostile, populated earth.

Had Adam and Eve not defaulted they would have been able to eradicate many diseases and genetic problems long ago. The world races would be much more homogenized.
 

Caino

Well-known member
13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so[e]; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Ed.
 

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13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so[e]; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Ed.
Why do quote from the scripture that you claim is totally corrupted?

You are the definition of crazy! :rolleyes:
 

Caino

Well-known member
Why do quote from the scripture that you claim is totally corrupted?

You are the definition of crazy! :rolleyes:
I didn’t ever claim that. Your mind is excitable, black and white. When editing the scriptures the authors left Cains fear of the previously populated earth in their new records.
 
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