ECT According to Paul he was not the only one that preached the MYSTERY.

I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
I note the very distinct lack of ANY mention of a covenant there in Romans 5.

When Paul, in Romans, does speak of a covenant:

Rom 9:1-5 (AKJV/PCE)​
(9:1) I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, (9:2) That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. (9:3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: (9:4) Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises; (9:5) Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

​
Rom 11:26-27 (AKJV/PCE)​
(11:26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: (11:27) For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. ​

And, of course, this requires the "all believers are spiritual Israel" charade to FIX the obvious problem.
Click to expand...



There's no charade. There's no piecemeal taking away one ethne's sins, or one tribe's sins, in the case of the highly-charading MADs, and then another's and another's. He dealt with mankinds sins in 2 Cor 5. The Gospel event happened among the Jews but was very pre-Jewish or trans-cultural!
 
Tambora

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Nang said:
Ultimately, there is only one Law of God.
Click to expand...
If GOD only has one law, then it must the law nailed to the cross.
But earlier you mentioned that it was the ceremonial laws and not the moral laws nailed to the cross.
And I've seen that expressed by many that only a portion of the laws of GOD was nailed to the cross.
Either the cross wiped out anything and everything of any law that could condemn anyone, or there is still some portion of a law left than can condemn.
And if there is a portion of the law that can condemn that is not covered by the cross, then there is no sacrifice left that can save from those condemnations.

So, in your estimation, was there any portion of any law that can condemn someone that was NOT nailed to the cross?
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
DAN P said:
Hi andActs 15:11 is why it proves that Peter is still a Law keeper and one. day they will saved by Grace. . Dan p

Sent from my XT1254 using TheologyOnline mobile app
Click to expand...

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
 
L

Lazy afternoon

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Tambora said:
If GOD only has one law, then it must the law nailed to the cross.
But earlier you mentioned that it was the ceremonial laws and not the moral laws nailed to the cross.
And I've seen that expressed by many that only a portion of the laws of GOD was nailed to the cross.
Either the cross wiped out anything and everything of any law that could condemn anyone, or there is still some portion of a law left than can condemn.
And if there is a portion of the law that can condemn that is not covered by the cross, then there is no sacrifice left that can save from those condemnations.

So, in your estimation, was there any portion of any law that can condemn someone that was NOT nailed to the cross?
Click to expand...

It was the breaking of the law in handwriting which was against them, and nailed to the cross. (annulled)

When the law for the righteous was then changed.

The law of faith was never changed.
LA
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Tambora said:
If GOD only has one law, then it must the law nailed to the cross.
Click to expand...

It was not the Law that was nailed to the cross, but the Person of Jesus Christ who was nailed to the cross, to take away the death sentence required by the Law that condemned us. Colossians 2:13-14


But earlier you mentioned that it was the ceremonial laws and not the moral laws nailed to the cross.
And I've seen that expressed by many that only a portion of the laws of GOD was nailed to the cross.
Click to expand...

This was said to clarify that the only laws that have been put aside since the cross are the civil and ceremonial laws. However, the moral Law of God (the Decalogue) is eternal, and is still applicable . . not for justification . . but as spiritual guideline to our new sanctified lives in Christ.


Either the cross wiped out anything and everything of any law that could condemn anyone, or there is still some portion of a law left than can condemn.
Click to expand...

No, the cross wiped out the "requirements" of the Law (that none of us could keep in order to escape the penalty of death), by Jesus dying in our place. All our failure and guilt under the Law's demands was met and legally satisfied through the death of Jesus.

The Law remains forever. Our sin and guilt and condemnation is gone forever, in and through faith in Him.


And if there is a portion of the law that can condemn that is not covered by the cross, then there is no sacrifice left that can save from those condemnations.
Click to expand...

All of the requirements of the Law continue to condemn those who are not saved by faith in the cross work of Jesus Christ. John 3:14-15

So, in your estimation, was there any portion of any law that can condemn someone that was NOT nailed to the cross?
Click to expand...

Any soul who remains under the old, original Covenant of Works because they have not been justified by faith in Jesus Christ, will be judged according to that Law.

Those for whom Christ died, are totally freed from the requirements and condemnation of the Law, because they have faith that Jesus legally met all those forensic requirements on their behalf, and totally removed all their guilt in the eyes of God.

It is most important to have faith in WHO was lifted up as the propitiation for sin, than thinking the Law was erased. Multitudes of unbelievers will be condemned by the Law of God on Judgment Day, but those who look to Him who was lifted up to remove that condemnation in their stead, are forever imputed with His righteousness and will never suffer the wrath of God or the second death under the Law, as it previously required.

The moral law says: The wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23

It is death that has been nailed to the cross in the body and Person of Jesus Christ.

Praise God!
 
Last edited:
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Nang said:
It was not the Law that was nailed to the cross, but the Person of Jesus Christ who was nailed to the cross, to take away the death sentence required by the Law that condemned us. Colossians 2:13-14




This was said to clarify that the only laws that have been put aside since the cross are the civil and ceremonial laws. However, the moral Law of God (the Decalogue) is eternal, and is still applicable . . not for justification . . but as spiritual guideline to our new sanctified lives in Christ.




No, the cross wiped out the "requirements" of the Law (that none of us could keep in order to escape the penalty of death), by Jesus dying in our place. All our failure and guilt under the Law's demands was met and legally satisfied through the death of Jesus.

The Law remains forever. Our sin and guilt and condemnation is gone forever, in and through faith in Him.




All of the requirements of the Law continue to condemn those who are not saved by faith in the cross work of Jesus Christ. John 3:14-15



Any soul who remains under the old, original Covenant of Works because they have not been justified by faith in Jesus Christ, will be judged according to that Law.

Those for whom Christ died, are totally freed from the requirements and condemnation of the Law, because they have faith Jesus legally met all those forensic requirements on their behalf, and totally removed all their guilt in the eyes of God.

It is most important to have faith in WHO was lifted up as the propitiation for sin, than thinking the Law was erased. Multitudes of unbelievers will be condemned by the Law of God on Judgment Day, but those who look to Him who was lifted up to remove that condemnation in their stead, are forever imputed with His righteousness and will never suffer the wrath of God or the second death under the Law, as it previously required.

The moral law says: The wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23

It is death that has been nailed to the cross in the body and Person of Jesus Christ.

Praise God!
Click to expand...



The condemnation was nailed to the cross.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Nang said:
Hebrews 2:9-18
Click to expand...


That one emphasizes "him"--Satan. '

Here is my observation: would the written code and regulations of Col 2:14 had anything about them that needed to be got rid of other than that "were against us and stood opposed to us"? In vs 16+ (if speaking of the same) we find that they make a person arrogant, and fragment others. In 20+ they waste effort on issues that don't go deep enough. That's why I think in 14, it is the condemnation inherent in it, and not its deeper ethical value.

There's law and then there's "law" in Paul, and sometimes they don't seem to know each other exists!
 
D

Danoh

New member
Interplanner said:
That one emphasizes "him"--Satan. '

Here is my observation: would the written code and regulations of Col 2:14 had anything about them that needed to be got rid of other than that "were against us and stood opposed to us"? In vs 16+ (if speaking of the same) we find that they make a person arrogant, and fragment others. In 20+ they waste effort on issues that don't go deep enough. That's why I think in 14, it is the condemnation inherent in it, and not its deeper ethical value.

There's law and then there's "law" in Paul, and sometimes they don't seem to know each other exists!
Click to expand...

Mumbo meets jumbo :rotfl:
 
Nang

Nang

TOL Subscriber
Interplanner said:
That one emphasizes "him"--Satan. '

Here is my observation: would the written code and regulations of Col 2:14 had anything about them that needed to be got rid of other than that "were against us and stood opposed to us"? In vs 16+ (if speaking of the same) we finally nd that they make a person arrogant, and fragment others. In 20+ they waste effort on issues that don't go deep enough. That's why I think in 14, it is the condemnation inherent in it, and not its deeper ethical value.

There's law and then there's "law" in Paul, and sometimes they don't seem to know each other exists!
Click to expand...

When crucifixions were performed, and the criminal sentenced to death was nailed to a tree ("cross"), a placard was also attached that named the legal charges of guilt held against his person.

Jesus' placard condemned Him to death for claiming He was "King of the Jews".

How does that fit into your explanation?
 
lifeisgood

lifeisgood

New member
Tambora said:
Hi Lifeisgood.


I'm sorry, but I am not familiar with the term ‘the double’ or ‘possessing the double’ .

At first I thought you may be speaking of the kinsman redeemer; but there is no sacrifice involved with that.

Could you point where in the law that particular practice you speak of is established?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I do not believe I said it was in the Law.

My understanding is that "possessing the double" was an ancient custom that when a Jew went bankrupt he would write all of his debt in a parchment and place it in a conspicuous place for all to see.

Once in a while one of those parchments would be chosen by a rich benefactor and he would fold the parchment over, write his name, and nail it back where it was; meaning that if this person owes you any money, just come and knock at my door and I will pay for it. It was a custom. It is not in the Law.

When Paul wrote Colossians 2:14, he might (notice the might) have had this custom in mind.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" (Col. 2:14).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top