ECT According to Paul he was not the only one that preached the MYSTERY.

[1Mind1Spirit]

What?

The focal point of the issue is that Jesus did not teach any of the 12 that they could eat unclean animals, or that those animals were now clean, prior to Paul being called. Therefore Jesus did not teach the 12 the same things Paul preached.

Really......


Mark 7

14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

 

[Lighthouse]

Really......


Mark 7

14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

If that meant what you claim it does then Peter's vision is wholly illogical. Especially his response to the command. And the fact it had to be repeated; twice!

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

If that meant what you claim it does then Peter's vision is wholly illogical. Especially his response to the command. And the fact it had to be repeated; twice!

Just what do you think I claim it means?

 

[steko]

Really......


Mark 7

14 And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand:

15 There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Matters of the heart.

Are you also without understanding?

17 And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

 

[Lighthouse]

Just what do you think I claim it means?

You claim it means Jesus taught the 12 the same thins Paul preached.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

You claim it means Jesus taught the 12 the same thins Paul preached.

That's right.

The law has always been spiritual, Jesus told them to observe what the Pharisees said but don't follow them into the ditch.

 

[lifeisgood]

This is NOT directed at anybody in particular. It is simply an observation after reading this thread.

No wonder there is so much division in the BOC.

There's the Acts 2 position, then the Acts 9:6 position, then the Acts 13 position; then the Acts 28 position, etc. ad infinitum.

And in the middle of all these positions, the only position that matters is totally lost in the mess of all the discussion about these positions -- Jesus Christ and His finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary.

Paul was having the same problem. It is no wonder he got exasperated. I can feel his exasperation in Galatians.

Paraphrasing 1 Cor. 3: Paul? Apollos? One foot in the Law one foot in the Cross. Get a grip people. Make up your minds people. It is absolutely, no question about it, unequivocally, only Christ Jesus and His finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary or you're more lukewarm than lukewarm.

It is the same in the world. Has anybody noticed all the hyphenated words?
Our kids are so dumbed down already that some Harvard / Columbia / Yale, etc. munchkins don't even know who George Washington, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, George W. Bush are.
It amazed me to watch these munchkins not be able to identify not even modern presidents.

Some Christians are more preoccupied with making sure they are in the correct group than to preach the Group. The Group is Jesus Christ and His finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary.

It would be so nice, at least to me, if I heard the same message from every pulpit I go to, but alas, Satan is having a field-day with the BOC (sometimes also referred to as the Church). But I would assume that some would take umbrage concerning this also and enter into a long dissertation as why we should not use Church and use BOC instead and again lose sight of what is really important --- in the munchkins' jargon --- J-C a-H-f l-w o-t C-C.

I guess I woke up in the wrong side of the bed this morning.

 

[patrick jane]

Jesus Christ and His finished legal work on the Cross of Calvary.

Why do you repeatedly refer to Christ's DBR as "legal" work? I don't like it

 

[patrick jane]

That's right.

The law has always been spiritual, Jesus told them to observe what the Pharisees said but don't follow them into the ditch.

The twelve didn't know -

Luke 18:31-32 KJV - Luke 18:33-34 KJV -

Mark 9:31-32 KJV - Luke 24:9-10 KJV - Luke 24:11 KJV -

Mark 16:11 KJV - John 20:9 KJV -

 

[Tambora]

....

Jesus Christ and His finished legal work on the Cross

...

Why do you repeatedly refer to Christ's DBR as "legal" work? I don't like it

I would like to know too.

Using that term kinda makes it sound like His trial and execution on the cross was justice.
And I have a feeling that's not really what Lifeisgood means when he says that.

 

[patrick jane]

I would like to know too.

Using that term kinda makes it sound like His trial and execution on the cross was justice.
And I have a feeling that's not really what Lifeisgood means when he says that.

I don't think lifeisgood means it that way either, but rather, the fulfilling of the law

 

[Right Divider]

I would like to know too.

Using that term kinda makes it sound like His trial and execution on the cross was justice.
And I have a feeling that's not really what Lifeisgood means when he says that.

The word that Jesus used when He said "It is finished" is a word used for legal payments, etc. It is also used in these verses:

Matt 17:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(17:24) ¶ And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute [money] came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

​

Luke 2:39 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:39) And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

​

Rom 2:27 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:27) And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

​

Jas 2:8 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:8) If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: ​

So it's not a bad analogy.

 

[musterion]

Unless he means 'vicarious lawkweping.'

 

[patrick jane]

So it's not a bad analogy.

Yes, it is. The scriptures you posted have nothing to do with the Cross.
Yes, Jesus fulfilled the law

 

[Right Divider]

Yes, it is. The scriptures you posted have nothing to do with the Cross.
Yes, Jesus fulfilled the law

I never said that the scriptures that I posted had anything to do with the Cross.
I was pointing out that the language that Jesus used was the same language used to describe legal transactions.
Don't become "like them" (and you know who I mean).

 

[patrick jane]

I never said that the scriptures that I posted had anything to do with the Cross.
I was pointing out that the language that Jesus used was the same language used to describe legal transactions.
Don't become "like them" (and you know who I mean).

I just don't like the word "legal" applied to Christ's work on the Cross, just my opinion.

 

[Interplanner]

I would like to know too.

Using that term kinda makes it sound like His trial and execution on the cross was justice.
And I have a feeling that's not really what Lifeisgood means when he says that.

If you don't understand the legal/accounting side of the Gospel, you don't really know much about Christian theology.

How can you miss how the message has something do with justice when one of the most frequent terms for the Gospel's substance is that it "justifies the ungodly" from their sins?

The Reformation said that one of the fundamental errors in theology is to confuse the debt issue of the Gospel with personal transformation. They are close but not identical. One is justification, the other is transformation or sanctification.

1: Justification is God's work in Christ for us.
2: Transformation is God's work in us through the Spirit.

#2 cannot justify; the Reformation made this a bedrock declaration. But today many people think that #1 is an initial transformation, or a jump-start in transformation or, in any case, that it is experiential. It is not. It is critical knowledge but it is not the change in a person's life.

 

[Interplanner]

I never said that the scriptures that I posted had anything to do with the Cross.
I was pointing out that the language that Jesus used was the same language used to describe legal transactions.
Don't become "like them" (and you know who I mean).

But of course "It is finished" was in the list, and it does indeed mean "The transaction is finished." God was in Christ reconciling the debt of man's sins. Good credit is offered to those who have faith.

 

[Tambora]

The word that Jesus used when He said "It is finished" is a word used for legal payments, etc. It is also used in these verses:

Matt 17:24 (AKJV/PCE)​

(17:24) ¶ And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute [money] came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

​

Luke 2:39 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:39) And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

​

Rom 2:27 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:27) And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

​

Jas 2:8 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:8) If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: ​

So it's not a bad analogy.

That helps. Thanks.
Probably just semantics that can be misconstrued at times.

Even still, an individual would bring a sacrifice for sins he actually committed; and Jesus committed no sin.
So He is not fulfilling the law in that respect.
So search the law and see if there is an instance where one can offer a sacrifice for another's sins, but not his own.