About Converting To Roman Catholicism

[God's Truth]

and i shall chose to talk about those that speak hatred in the name of Jesus.

You are speaking hatred about those who want to speak their beliefs about denominations; denominations that ruins lives.

This site is not for you to tell everyone they are hateful and to be quiet about doctrines and denominations.


Note: Meshak, I see your ignorant 'thanks' to people who are contentious.

 

[WeberHome]

Re: About Converting To Roman Catholicism

-
● 2Pet 1:19-21 . . We possess the prophetic message that is altogether reliable. You will do well to be attentive to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.

That passage is commonly utilized to discourage people from trying to get anything out of the Holy Bible sans Rome's oversight as per CCC 85. But the language and grammar of Peter's instructions are not talking about that. No; they're talking about the origin of prophesy rather than how anyone goes about digesting and/or applying prophesy.

In other words: prophetic sayings didn't arise from human reasoning and a fertile imagination. No, the prophets got their sayings directly from God.

Many of the Catholics with whom I've dialogued online place far more faith in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (a.k.a. CCC) than they do the Bible; which is not an uncommon error. For example: when Christ was here, he condemned elements of Judaism that are allowed more authority than the Bible (Matt 23:23 and Mark 7:6-13). Well, that being his manner; I've no doubt Christ has a list of things that he'd like very much culled from the CCC.

Anyway; whether the Bible is someone's sole authority or their secondary authority makes no difference because in the long run it is still an authority-- a valid authority fully recognized as such by the Roman Catholic Church.

According to the Vatican Council (Sess. III, c. ii) the Scriptures are sacred and canonical because "having been written by inspiration of the Holy Ghost, they have God for their author"

Faithful Roman Catholics should not be reluctant to agree with the Council's ruling that the Bible is:

1• Sacred

2• Canonical

3• Inspired by the Holy Ghost, and

4• Authored by God

There's also this:

"In its pages we recognize His voice, we hear a message of deep significance for every one of us. Through the spiritual dynamism and prophetic force of the Bible, the Holy Spirit spreads His light and His warmth over all men, in whatever historical or sociological situation they find themselves." (Paulus PP VI, from the Vatican, September 18, 1970)

So then; according to that Vatican Council and to Paulus PP VI; when people listen to the Bible; they're hearing the voice of God, and also listening to that which the Holy Spirit utilizes to spread His light and His warmth over all men.

One of Christ's parables spoke of a farmer sowing seed. The Lord interpreted the seed to be the word of God (Luke 8:11) which in his day did not include the CCC. In other words: the seed in the parable refers to the Holy Bible.

When John Q and Jane Doe pew warmer relegate the Holy Bible to the status of a non essential, they identify themselves as the soil on the path; a location in which the word of God does not take root; instead the path's soil is a killing field for evil.

"Those on the path are the ones who have heard, but the Devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts that they may not believe and be saved." (Luke 8:12)

/

 

[meshak]

You are speaking hatred about those who want to speak their beliefs about denominations; denominations that ruins lives.

This site is not for you to tell everyone they are hateful and to be quiet about doctrines and denominations.


Note: Meshak, I see your ignorant 'thanks' to people who are contentious.

blessings, GT

 

[jaybird]

You are speaking hatred about those who want to speak their beliefs about denominations; denominations that ruins lives.

This site is not for you to tell everyone they are hateful and to be quiet about doctrines and denominations.


Note: Meshak, I see your ignorant 'thanks' to people who are contentious.

i disagree with bashing groups because they are different. thats all this is.

 

[God's Truth]

i disagree with bashing groups because they are different. thats all this is.

Stop your bashing.

 

[jaybird]

-
●

Many of the Catholics with whom I've dialogued online place far more faith in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (a.k.a. CCC) than they do the Bible; which is not an uncommon error. For example: when Christ was here, he condemned elements of Judaism that are allowed more authority than the Bible (Matt 23:23 and Mark 7:6-13). Well, that being his manner; I've no doubt Christ has a list of things that he'd like very much culled from the CCC.


/

hope i dont derail this to bad but this made me think of something
i have learned from being part of discussion boards the last five years that people online say differnt things than they do in the real world.
i have met no one in the real world that thought the trinty was a big deal, but online there seems to be many that think the entire faith hinges off this belief. in the real world i have met no one that believes Gen 6 are people, online many think there are, same as faith/works debate.

 

[God's Truth]

hope i dont derail this to bad but this made me think of something
i have learned from being part of discussion boards the last five years that people online say differnt things than they do in the real world.
i have met no one in the real world that thought the trinty was a big deal, but online there seems to be many that think the entire faith hinges off this belief. in the real world i have met no one that believes Gen 6 are people, online many think there are, same as faith/works debate.

...some more of your bashing? lol

 

[meshak]

...some more of your bashing? lol

easy sister.

peace.

 

[meshak]

hope i dont derail this to bad but this made me think of something
i have learned from being part of discussion boards the last five years that people online say differnt things than they do in the real world.
i have met no one in the real world that thought the trinty was a big deal, but online there seems to be many that think the entire faith hinges off this belief. in the real world i have met no one that believes Gen 6 are people, online many think there are, same as faith/works debate.

God looks into our heart.

In the world only God knows our faith.

In the internet, God looks into what we say too, and deal with us accordingly.

 

[WeberHome]

Re: About Converting To Roman Catholicism

-
Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not the same.

Immortality is a material kind of life that has to do with a superhuman body impervious to age, death, and putrefaction.

Eternal life, on the other hand, isn't a material kind of life; it's a spirit kind of life; which is why it's possible for people to obtain eternal life prior to obtaining immortality.

For example: Christ had eternal life when he was here (John 5:26, 1John 1:1-2) but according to Rom 6:9 and Rev 1:18, he didn't obtain immortality till he rose from the dead.

Likewise Christ's believing followers won't obtain immortality until their resurrections (Rom 8:23-25, 1Cor 15:51-53, and 1Thss 4:14-17). However; it's possible for them to obtain eternal life now, before they pass on.

In the passages below, note the grammatical tense of the "have" verbs. They're in the present tense; not future, indicating that believers have eternal life right now-- no delay, and no waiting period.

● John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life

● John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message, and trust in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from Death into Life.

● 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

The right-now possession of eternal life is very crucial because according to God's testimony, as an expert witness in all matters pertaining to Christianity; people lacking eternal life do not have God's son. In other words: they are currently quite christless.

● 1John 5:11-12 . . This is what God has testified: He has given us eternal life, and this life is in His son. So whoever has God's son has this life; and whosoever does not have this life, does not have His son.

People that argue with God's testimony, are insinuating that He not only doesn't know what He's talking about, but also that God is a dishonest person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth.

● 1John 5:10 . .Whoever does not believe God has made Him a liar by not believing the testimony God has given about His son.

When people do that-- when they insinuate that God is dishonest --they imply that He belongs in hell because according to Rev 21:8, hell is where all liars are destined.

Anyway; I should think that it goes without saying that christless people are in grave danger of the sum of all fears.

● Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

We can be sure that there are millions of christless people throughout the world; but are there any christless Christians? Well; for starters: Roman Catholicism-- known everywhere as the largest single denomination in the world --currently consists of approximately 1.2 billion followers who all, to a man, including the Pope, insist that nobody obtains eternal life till sometime after they die and cross over to the afterlife.

Well; that can mean but one thing, and one thing only: seeing as how those 1.2 billion souls are currently lacking eternal life, then according to God's expert testimony they are currently lacking Christ, and they will pass on without him; you can safely apply that rule to any, and all, denominations, religions, and/or spiritual ideologies insisting that eternal life cannot be obtained prior to one's demise.

/

 

[WeberHome]

Re: About Converting To Roman Catholicism

-
I was taught in catechism that seeing as how Jesus Christ's mother was a virgin when he was conceived, then he didn't have a human father. Well; that all depends on how we go about defining "father".

● Gen 2:21a-22a . . So the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon the man; and, while he slept, He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that spot. And the Lord God fashioned the rib that He had taken from the man into a woman;

The Hebrew word for "rib" is tsela' (tsay-law') and Gen 2:21-22 contains the only two places in the entire Old Testament where it's translated with an English word representing a skeletal bone. In the other twenty-nine places, it's translated "side" which is really how it should be translated because according to Gen 2:23, the material taken from Adam's body included a portion of his flesh, which is notable; here's why.

God constructed Adam's body from the Earth's dust, and then breathed into it the breath of life. He did neither of those two things with Eve. Her body was constructed from Adam's body, and she got her breath of life from his breath of life. In other words: human life is a transferrable kind of life that can be, and is, passed on to succeeding generations.

The result is: none of us are discreet creations; everybody that biologically descends from Adam is just simply more Adam; viz: reproductions, i.e. our body is his body, and our breath of life is his breath of life. This is very important in regards to Jesus Christ's human origin.

There are people, even a number of Christians, who desperately want to biologically disconnect Jesus Christ from Adam; their case relies heavily upon Jesus' virgin conception, which is a losing case seeing as how the flesh and bone of Mary's parents biologically descended from Eve's flesh and bone; and from thence Adam's flesh and bone; ergo: Mary's flesh and bone were Adam's.

Opponents have even attempted to biologically disconnect Christ from Adam by insisting that his conception was an implant, i.e. Mary was Jesus' surrogate mother rather than his biological mother. But that idea is not only a theory concocted right out of thin air and a fertile imagination, but it's also spurious and unbiblical.

● Acts 13:22-23 . . "I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will." Of this man's seed hath God, according to His promise, raised unto Israel a savior, Jesus.

● Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh

The koiné Greek word for "seed" in those two passages is sperma (sper' mah) which in males typically refers to their reproductive stuff and/or their genetic material; especially when the seed is according to the flesh, i.e. biological seed rather than spiritual seed.

Now, in order for Christ to descend from David's seed according to the flesh sans Mary sleeping with a man, she had to be one of David's biological granddaughters or else her child would not have been David's actual progeny, and the angel's announcement would've been untrue.

● Luke 1:31 . .You will conceive in your womb and bear a son; the Lord God will give him the throne of his father David.

I can think of no sensible argument that would successfully break Christ's biological lineage to David, nor of one that would successfully break David's biological lineage to Eve.

So then; unless somebody can prove-- clearly, conclusively, and without ambiguity; air tight and iron clad-- that Jesus Christ's mother wasn't biologically related to Eve; then it's a foregone conclusion that Adam was the first in Jesus Christ's long line of biological male ancestors; the final one of course being Mary's biological father.

NOTE: It's commonly objected that women cannot provide the Y chromosome necessary for producing a male child. And that's right; they usually can't. However, seeing as how God constructed an entire woman from a sample of male flesh and bone; then I do not see how it would be any more difficult for God to construct a dinky little Y chromosome from a woman's flesh and bone.

And seeing as how every woman's flesh and bone descends from Adam's flesh and bone, then any Y chromosome that God might construct from a woman's flesh and bone would essentially be Adam's Y chromosome seeing as how Eve's flesh and bone were Adam's to begin with.

Q: But doesn't 1Cor 15:45-47 say that Christ is a second Adam rather than a reproduction of the first?

A: I'm going to deliberately misquote a portion of that passage so's to bring out a point.

"And so it is written; "The first man Adam was made a living soul"; the last Adam was made a life-giving man."

According to the actual language, the last Adam was made a life-giving spirit rather than a life-giving man. When 1Cor 15:45-47 is considered along with John 1:1-4, it becomes readily apparent that the last Adam was God prior to becoming an h.sapiens.

/

 

[WeberHome]

Re: About Converting To Roman Catholicism

-
Q: If Jesus Christ really was David's biological progeny-- and thus Adam's --then wouldn't his mom have passed the consequences of Adam's sin to him?

A: Yes; absolutely, because the whole entirety of Adam's posterity--regardless of age, race, or gender --is automatically condemned for tasting the forbidden fruit.

Note the grammatical tense of the passage below; it's past tense; indicating that the moment Adam tasted the forbidden fruit, he and his posterity (which included Eve seeing as she came into being via the organic tissues of his own body) became culpable-- in real time --including those of his posterity yet to be born.

● Rom 5:12 . . Sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned

● Rom 5:19 . .Through the disobedience of the one man, the many were made sinners.

However: though Adam's disobedience made his posterity sinners; it didn't make them sinful: that's something else altogether. We're not talking about the so-called "fallen nature" here, we're just talking about joint principals in Adam's act of disobedience.

The good news is: Adam's sin is not a sin unto hell. No; it's very simple to clear his sin off the books seeing as how life's end is the proper satisfaction of justice for what he did (Gen 2:16-17). The satisfaction of justice for his posterity's own personal sins is another matter.

Q: If Jesus Christ was made a joint principal in Adam's slip-up, then how can it be honestly said that Christ was a lamb without blemish or spot?

A: Adam's slip made Christ culpable right along with his fellow men, yes; but it didn't make him sinful. In point of fact; Christ committed no personal sins of his own. (John 8:29, 2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22)

Q: What was the secret to his success?

A: Jesus Christ is a mysterious amalgam of human and divine. Not only did he descend from Adam, but Christ also descended from God; and I think that most people would agree that divinity is easily able to overcome humanity.

/

 

[WeberHome]

Re: About Converting To Roman Catholicism

-
● Luke 2:8-11 . . And in the same region there were some shepherds staying out in the fields, and keeping watch over their flock by night. And an angel of The Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of The Lord shone around them; and they were terribly frightened.

. . . And the angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of a great joy which shall be for all the people; for today in the city of David there has been born for you a savior, who is Christ the Lord.

The Greek word for "savior" in that verse is soter (so-tare') which means: a rescuer.

Rescuers typically help people who are in grave distress and/or imminent danger of death and/or serious injury, and helpless to do anything about it; e.g. Red Cross, Firemen, Emergency Medical teams, snow patrols, mountain units, and the Coast Guard and National Guard.

Wouldn't it be awful if those agencies refused to assist desperate folk until they first proved themselves deserving? Well lucky for everyone that those agencies work on the basis of need rather than merit or many of us would end up thrown back to the wolves.

I think quite a few people are under the impression that Christ is some sort of probation officer; viz: if people "endure to the end" as they say; then he grants them a clearance for heaven. But God forbid they should fail to satisfy the conditions of their probation, because then they're out the door.

Probation can be likened to a sword of Damocles hanging over people's heads by a slender thread easily broken by conduct unbecoming. How dare the angel of Luke 2:8-11 describe his announcement as "good news of great joy" if probation were actually what's meant by sozo instead of rescue.

On the other hand; if Christ is in the business of rescuing people from the wrath of God in accordance with the humane principles underlying normal emergency services; then yes, I fully agree with the angel that the birth of Christ is something to get excited about.

/

 

[WeberHome]

Re: About Converting To Roman Catholicism

-
POSIT: The Hail Mary (a.k.a. Ave Maria) is a biblical prayer. God gave it to us. It's in the Bible in black and white.

RESPONSE: Some co-workers of mine who soldiered in Viet Nam during the decade of the 70's, related to me how they were detailed to go out into the jungle and tally the number of VC dead so that high command could evaluate the effectiveness of heavy bombing runs.

The enemy's bodies were often ripped to pieces making the dead difficult to count; so what the guys did was scrounge up enough body parts to assemble a John Doe; then they could enter the man they assembled into the log as a dead soldier. That came to be known as a kick-count.

What Rome has done is cobble up an alleged biblical prayer by piecing together excerpts; in effect, scrounging up a kick-count prayer.

According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, the "Hail Mary" is not an in-the-Bible prayer, but is a developed prayer; and it was developed over a number of years.

Here's the entire text of the so-called Hail Mary.

Hail [Mary] full of grace, the Lord is with thee,
blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb [Jesus].
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

"Hail, the Lord is with thee" was plagiarized from Gabriel's greeting at Luke 1:28 (Douay-Rheims version).

"full of grace" is fabricated.

"blessed art thou amongst women" was plagiarized from Elizabeth's greeting at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).

"blessed is the fruit of thy womb" was also plagiarized from Elizabeth's greeting at Luke 1:42 (Douay-Rheims version).

"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen." is stated by the official Catechism of the Council of Trent to have been fabricated by the Church itself.

Obviously then, portions of the Hail Mary, in its official form, are borrowed from the Bible; but the body text of the prayer itself, is not actually in the Bible; viz: rather than God-given, it's a man-made supplication concocted from plagiarized excerpts; with an ending invocation composed entirely from somebody's imagination.

Q: What's so bad about a prayer like the Hail Mary?

A: Well; for starters, it's impersonal; viz: it's a scripted performance; thus it fails to comply with a very straight forward command to pray from the heart.

● Heb 4:15-16 . . For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has similarly been tested in every way, yet without sin. So let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and to find grace for timely help.

The Greek word for "confidently" is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'-ah) which means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or candor.

Reciting the lines of the Hail Mary is not what I call forthright, nor blunt, nor out-spoken, nor candid. It's actually not much different than mindlessly reading from a siddur like one of those Jews bobbing back and forth at the Wailing Wall.

When speaking to God via the priest spoken of in Heb 4:15-16, get down to business and tell Him exactly what's on your mind instead of wasting God's time and insulting His intelligence like one of those mindless robocallers that annoy everybody to no end with their pre-recorded messages.

So then, here's my recommendation.

Christ left behind no recorded instructions to contact his mom. So then, just to be on the safe side, and to avoid a crisis of conscience, leave off on the practice. Since it's not required; then don't.

/

 

[WeberHome]

Re: About Converting To Roman Catholicism

-
● Luke 11:1-2 . . He was praying in a certain place, and when he had finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray just as John taught his disciples.” He said to them, “When you pray, say: yada, yada, yada, etc."

When I was a little boy, just about every night at bedtime I recited the classic lay-me-down-to-sleep children's prayer. In my opinion; a rote prayer like that one is okay for getting kids started communicating with God.

Jesus' disciples were full-grown men physically. But they were just babies spiritually. A prayer like the Our Father is a good place for spiritually immature Christians to begin, but it's not a good place for them to stay.

● 1Cor 13:11 . .When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things.

Now you take Jesus for example. There is no record of him ever even once praying the Our Father. In point of fact, when examining Jesus' prayers, it's readily apparent that he typically prayed in a candid, conversational style instead of reciting rote. Two good examples of his style are located at Matt 11:25-26 and John 17:1-26. Jesus' style is the style that mature Christians are to follow as their role model.

● Eph 4:15 . .We should grow in every way into him who is the head, Christ

● Eph 4:11-13 . . And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers, to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the extent of the full stature of Christ

When people have been Christians for some time, and still reciting rote prayers, I'd have to say that their spiritual growth has been stunted, i.e. they're not developing properly because they haven't been getting adequate nourishment.

/