Yes, but the case just finished this year so, it is still rather fresh in the memories of those on the left coast.
A Man Named, Kelly Thomas Was Suffocated To Death, by Police In California in 2012
- Thread starter Mark SeaSigh
- Start date
Yes, but the case just finished this year so, it is still rather fresh in the memories of those on the left coast.
This Charming Manc
Well-known member
Manc has his moments 
Maybe I was harsh, but pivot to a race issue seemed unnecessary.
Its seem US police seem able to get away with excessive brutality to those deemed undesirable at the moment.
The legal seems biased at the moment
Maybe I was harsh, but pivot to a race issue seemed unnecessary.Its seem US police seem able to get away with excessive brutality to those deemed undesirable at the moment.
The legal seems biased at the moment
gcthomas
New member
It is difficult to make that claim, since there are no comprehensive statistics collected on those killed by police. No-one knows how many are killed nor how many were killed unnecessarily.
Since the number of people killed by your police is in the many hundreds per year and most are rubber stamped as reasonable, it wouldn't surprise me if murders carried out by police exceeded in number those police who are murdered. There is simply no way to know.
99lamb
New member
Some information on Kelly Thomas:
"A chronically homeless man who was diagnosed with schizophrenia, Thomas was seen regularly in the area where he was beaten. He had had multiple previous encounters with Ramos that were detailed by attorneys.
Defense attorneys had described Thomas’ violent encounters with family members and drug use that began when he was a teenager."
and also this fact:
"There was no evidence of drugs or alcohol in Thomas’ body at the time of his death, a coroner’s report stated."
http://ktla.com/2014/01/13/verdict-reached-in-trial-of-ex-officers-in-kelly-thomas-death/
"A chronically homeless man who was diagnosed with schizophrenia, Thomas was seen regularly in the area where he was beaten. He had had multiple previous encounters with Ramos that were detailed by attorneys.
Defense attorneys had described Thomas’ violent encounters with family members and drug use that began when he was a teenager."
and also this fact:
"There was no evidence of drugs or alcohol in Thomas’ body at the time of his death, a coroner’s report stated."
http://ktla.com/2014/01/13/verdict-reached-in-trial-of-ex-officers-in-kelly-thomas-death/
It really isn't hard to make that claim at all being most, if not all, of those being killed by police officers are justified, I will stand with the officers as opposed to criminals, they deserve the benefit of the doubt for their service. The cases that bring the spotlight of "abuse" are remote in the scope of what they do and who they are dealing with. Where are the numbers of what is "rubber stamped" as you say and those that are justified? This is another disingenuous statement, you stand as judge and jury against law enforcement without hearing the evidence that justifies their actions?
gcthomas
New member
Police shootings are not routinely investigated by independent people, and there are no figures for all police shootings anyway - most authorities fail to collect the data.
And it is not always police shooting criminals, unless the act of shooting counts as arrest, trial, conviction and execution.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Every effort ought to be made to arrest rather that shoot first. That may be the case, but I have yet to see the evidence in a transparent way.
And it is not always police shooting criminals, unless the act of shooting counts as arrest, trial, conviction and execution.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? Every effort ought to be made to arrest rather that shoot first. That may be the case, but I have yet to see the evidence in a transparent way.
Could this be because there is no need when the facts & witness' are compelling enough to not merit further investigation? More than likely so.
Example: Man commits armed robbery is pursued and cornered where he brandishes his weapon at a cop, then is promptly shot. What is to investigate here? nothing. If you are a criminal brandishing a weapon at law enforcement they are within every right to kill this person...period!
When? Where? Are you pulling this scenario out of a hat, or do you have some facts to present? or is this just some "What If" fiction.
I believe that arrests made opposed to violent confrontation is quite a large number too. The majority of arrests do not end up in a violent scenario but, when a person gets violent with police are they to run away so that the criminal is not harmed? This kind of thinking is unrealistic and just plain stupid.
Tinark
Active member
His father was a retired police officer living in the community. Kelly Thomas was schizophrenic and refused treatment and was essentially a transient by choice.
The thing is, they continued beating him and claiming he was resisting after he was passed out and unconscious. Perhaps one way to improve the technique would be to stop the severe beating when the person passes out?
Tinark
Active member
His story was in the media. I followed it at the time. There were plenty of protests about his death within that community.
Tinark
Active member
The number of officers killed and assaulted has gone down by almost half over the last 30 years, yet the number of people assaulted and killed by police has _increased_ and the police forces are getting supplied with more and more military gear. How do you explain that?
Iceland had it's first ever person killed by a police officer in it's history last year. Multiple police killings is a daily occurrence in the United States.
In the past five years, more people in Utah have been killed by police than by gang members.
Or drug dealers. Or from child abuse.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/1842489-155/killings-by-utah-police-outpacing-gang
Kelly Thomas had a history of violence:
The first witness called was Thomas' 91-year-old grandfather, Walter Dieball, who recounted a June 8, 1995, visit by Thomas to Dieball's Placentia home.
Dieball made his way to the witness stand in a wheelchair and wore on his left jacket lapel a yellow ribbon that read "Kelly Thomas."
Under questioning from Ramos' attorney John Barnett, Dieball testified, " He hit me over the head with a fireplace poker."
Barnett: "You talked to the police about this didn't you?"
Dieball: "We were watching TV, and he was in an area behind me. He just suddenly got up. I heard the fireplace tools rattling. I turned to look and saw the poker in his hand and then he hit me (on the head) with it."
Barnett: "What happened next?"
Dieball: I was too dizzy, and I fell on the floor. I got up to get away from him and went to a bedroom where I had a locked door."
Barnett asked how many times Dieball was struck by the poker.
Dieball: " I guess he hit me a second time when I was on my knees."
Barnett: "And Kelly Thomas followed you and hit you several more times as you ran to the bedroom?"
Dieball: "I believe he hit me in the back once."
Barnett: "Were you bleeding a lot?"
Dieball: "Seemed like a lot."
Barnett: "And you had several wounds on your head, right?"
Dieball: "Right."
http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/12/12/40902/kelly-thomas-trial-defense-set-to-question-thomas/
My turn to ask a question Mark:
Why are you liberals allowing these mentally ill people to aimlessly wander the streets posing a threat to people? Is that your definition of compassion?
I think I can explain it somewhat at least the militarization portion, do you remember this botched bank robbery in 1997? The movie "Heat" was based upon this bank robbery shootout, maybe you saw it.
http://www.cnn.com/US/9702/28/shootout.update/
The cops were completely outgunned by two men in full body armor and automatic weapons, 15 injured including 10 cops in the hour long shootout in Los Angeles. It is scenes like these & others where criminals have went military on the police and in turn cops are being trained & equipped to deal with these situations. Has it gone too far? maybe but, certainly if you were one of the folks caught up in this situation you would want law enforcement to be fully equipped to handle it, no?
Tinark said:
Wow. I've heard some statements in my day, Debating Evolutionists and Such; but that one "takes the Cake".
=M=
tran·sient
ˈtranSHənt,ˈtranzēənt/
adjective
adjective: transient
1.
lasting only for a short time; impermanent.
"a transient cold spell"
synonyms: transitory, temporary, short-lived, short-term, ephemeral, impermanent, brief, short, momentary, fleeting, passing, here today and gone tomorrow; More
literaryevanescent, fugitive
"our interest in the environment must not be transient"
antonyms: permanent
staying or working in a place for only a short time.
"the transient nature of the labor force in catering"
noun
noun: transient; plural noun: transients
1.
a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time.
synonyms: hobo, vagrant, vagabond, street person, homeless person, down-and-out; More
traveler, drifter, derelict
"the plight of poor transients"
2.
a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.
It didn't get "News Coverage" when it Occurred; when being compared to Other Cases that have been used as a Mechanism to control the Public Reaction. Such as what was seen Recently.
Manc you are Full of Non-Sense, and besides;
From the OP said:
Kelly;
I won't forget you.
=M=
If there were Police in My Church, or Masons for that Matter; I would Purge you Out, and cast you into the Streets.
I have chosen to speak out about Kelly, because this Angers me to the Highest Degree!
I swear there will be an Equalization of the Iniquity you have Woven; For those like Ramos, Wolfe, and Cincinelli.
Even those who have your name will be Ashamed.
If those Men who Murdered a Sleeping Man still live, Justice has not been served; I don't care what you all believe.
I know I don't like Cops that kill Innocent People.
Just Think, of the number of People Murdered By the Police, whose Murders they did not catch the Police Committing on camera, who are not Serving a Sentence!!!
No, I don't trust Cops or Masons (Especially Masons); and, I don't think they belong in anyone's church, they strong arm money from the Poor, and take the Lives of the Weak, but where is their Justice in this Life? Certainly their honor has fled from before them Now, when you see that they are thieves and Murderers, and the ones who Break Up the Households and Families.
You believe in Evolution Chimp-Man Evolution, Don't you Mank?
Survival of the Fittest, all that Jazz.
=M=
Mancy said:
Cautious?
From Wiki;
"Medical records show that bones in his face were broken and he choked on his own blood.[4] The coroner concluded that compression of the thorax made it impossible for Kelly Thomas to breathe normally and deprived his brain of oxygen".
Why is Charming in your name Mancy?
Mark: With your out and out HATRED of law enforcement, I'm afraid that you'll forget to take your meds and leave the safety of your mom's basement and wander out into the real world and decide to take your hostilities out one or more police officers.
I have to warn you Mark:
You won't win.
I have to warn you Mark:
You won't win.
I'm Non-Political.
You think Cops should be able to Kill a Sleeping Man, who was Woken To be Beaten, and then He Screamed to his Father for help.
You are lost enough to think that a Single Unarmed Man, can Resist Arrest by Three Plus Police Officers with Guns, Tasers, and Clubs.
Did you even Watch the Video in the OP?
Or, are you too blind to even view it, because you want to just believe whatever your Biased Preconceived Thought Process has Determined?
=M=
You should be ashamed of yourself.
Now's my turn to ask you a Question; Are you A Cop, or Do you have Family who are Cops/Police/Masons?
Last edited:
You are Lost.
A Cop Killed My Cousin, she was his Wife; that Man has transferred to another state Since, and has yet to see Justice.
He will, soon.
So, Yes; I do take this Issue Personally.
=M=
When you say "he will soon", does that mean that you're going to take justice into your own hands?