8th PP video released

jeffblue101

New member
What would you rather happen to fetal tissue from already dead infants? Do you believe that having it rot away is better than using it to do research that could maybe save millions of lives some day?

Are you against people donating their organs after their death as well? It is more or less the exact same thing

I'm against the killing of any human for a profit, and the aborted unborn ARE NOT TRASH even adult research cadavers are treated with respect and are given a burial or cremation. HUMAN beings bodies after they die do not belong in a trash bin.
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Okay great so your position is.... lets wait and see what happens. Apparently you can't form an opinion until the legal system tells you what is what.

In that case why even bother commenting on this thread? (no offense)

He's here to defend PP because he supports a woman's right to kill her kids.
 

Quetzal

New member
Okay great so your position is.... lets wait and see what happens. Apparently you can't form an opinion until the legal system tells you what is what.

In that case why even bother commenting on this thread? (no offense)
(Non-taken) I would like to avoid these threads all together. With that said, when I do jump into the fray I like to offer some contrast to the overly emotionally charged posts. It happens to everyone and people tend to lose sight on what has actually happened so far and what is actually happening at the moment.

I don't give my opinion anymore because it turns into a rehearsed madhouse of name calling, assumptions, and enough logical fallacies to drive me nuts. It's stupid and no one is really interested in discussion. They just want to be right and they want everyone to know it, too!

So, instead, I just stick to what we know and tend to keep opinions out of it. If this really went down as badly as this smear campaign says it did, throw the book at em! Until then, I prefer to wait until the trial happens before I declare someone guilty.
 

Kdall

BANNED
Banned
Well... I prefer to donate my organs voluntarily after I die naturally. That's preferable to me over being murdered for my organs. What about you?

In a perfect world I agree with you. But it's not perfect. If they're already dead, there's no reason to waste
 

jeffblue101

New member
I never said that you need 2nd trimester fetal tissue. I have no idea what you need for a breakthrough. I just don't see the point in wasting tissue from an already dead fetus. It's either going to rot, or it can be used to help others potentially. I don't want any 2nd trimester abortions, but if they're going to happen then we should take advantage of the opportunity to use the tissue for good

Here is an article that explains my perspective better than I can write it.
http://articles.latimes.com/1991-08-01/business/fi-331_1_fetal-tissue arcticle was written in 1991 so a lot of claims that a cure will be made from abortions have already been proven wrong.
Transplant research supporters argue that it is sinful to waste the tissue when it could be used to heal the living. Transplant opponents insist that explicitly linking abortion to healing would effectively excuse or encourage the procedure. So although the government funds generic research on fetal tissue, it explicitly refuses to fund transplant research. Arguing that such research is essential, Congress recently voted to lift the funding ban--a move the Bush Administration vows to veto.

That debate is political gamesmanship tarted up as public policy. The real issue here isn't fetal tissue transplant research; it's what happens if this research leads to widely practical therapies. Dr. Kenneth Riley, chairman of obstetrics, gynecology and reproductive biology at Harvard Medical School and a champion of fetal tissue transplant research, believes that work under way in treating Parkinson's disease will generate demand for transplant treatment within three to five years. What happens if fetal tissue proves just as useful in treating diabetes and Alzheimer's? What are the probable consequences of success?

With more than half a million Parkinson's sufferers, nearly three quarters of a million severely effected diabetics and several million potential Alzheimer's victims, the consequences are potentially massive. Theoretically, fetal transplant surgery could become more prevalent than heart surgery.

Shifts in public perception might prove equally dramatic. With transplant technology, an abortion can be transformed from a personal tragedy to a gift of life. Supporters of fetal tissue transplants affirm that there should be a wall between the decision to abort and the decision to donate. But, practically, can there be? Indeed, should there be? Would it be wrong for a doctor to tell a woman who wants an abortion that, if she waits only two weeks, her fetal tissue could help save someone's life? Perhaps that knowledge will ease her trauma. While you're at it, why not offer to pay for the abortion if she is willing to donate? Society does it for blood; why not for fetal tissue?

Let's complicate the question. "What happens when (abortion pill) RU-482 comes to America and there's no tissue?" poses Harvard's Ryan. The economics of fetal tissue availability is quite unlike the economics of kidneys, livers and hearts.

What mother of a crippled Type 1 diabetic girl wouldn't seriously consider the possibility of an induced abortion to save her suffering child? What loving daughter wouldn't explore that possibility to save her father from the cruel decay of Parkinson's? Indeed, what kind of subtle and overt pressures might women be subjected to if close friends and relatives are similarly stricken? What does "choice" mean under these circumstances?

"If these techniques turn out to be successful, would anyone try to deny that this shifts the process of decision making towards choosing to have an abortion?" asks Dr. James Mason, the assistant secretary for health at the Department of Health and Human Services who champions the Bush Administration's fetal tissue transplant funding ban.

For scientists to divorce fetal tissue transplant research from its therapeutic implications is appallingly dishonest. Simply saying that the difficult ethical choices are up to society is an abdication of responsibility that should disqualify them from public funds. If scientists believe that harvesting aborted fetal tissue or direct family donations are appropriate public policy, then they should defend it and not hide behind the academic veil of "research."

A good point made in the article is that PP worshippers are just as anti fetal research as pro lifers since a central claim that is made to support funding PP is that agressive contracaptive usage will reduce abortions. If abortions are dramactically reduced by contracaptives what good is a "cure" that will be completly dependent on a large amount of abortions, especially in the 2nd trimester.
 

Quetzal

New member
Then lay it out.
What's your position on abortion?
No, thank you. While you and Knight seem to beg for opinion, I have watched Knight and his other mods ban people for expressing an opinion that goes against the norm of the forum. This is the one topic that I am learning to leave my opinion out of it.
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
No, thank you. While you and Knight seem to beg for opinion, I have watched Knight and his other mods ban people for expressing an opinion that goes against the norm of the forum. This is the one topic that I am learning to leave my opinion out of it.

You pretty much just told us right there.
 

Kdall

BANNED
Banned
I'm against the killing of any human for a profit, and the aborted unborn ARE NOT TRASH even adult research cadavers are treated with respect and are given a burial or cremation. HUMAN beings bodies after they die do not belong in a trash bin.

You do realize that the ones who don't get donated are the ones who get trashed, right? The donated tissue will help infants and adults in the future. I cannot for the life of me understand why so may of you are resistant to, with the understanding that no matter what the baby is going to be dead, using tissue to further medical advancements
 

Kdall

BANNED
Banned
Here is an article that explains my perspective better than I can write it.
http://articles.latimes.com/1991-08-01/business/fi-331_1_fetal-tissue arcticle was written in 1991 so a lot of claims that a cure will be made from abortions have already been proven wrong.


A good point made in the article is that PP worshippers are just as anti fetal research as pro lifers since a central claim that is made to support funding PP is that agressive contracaptive usage will reduce abortions. If abortions are dramactically reduced by contracaptives what good is a "cure" that will be completly dependent on a large amount of abortions, especially in the 2nd trimester.

This article, especially the segments you boldened, strongly supports the idea that fetal tissue can be overwhelmingly beneficial to research. In fact it seems to be even more beneficial than I previously thought
 

jeffblue101

New member
You do realize that the ones who don't get donated are the ones who get trashed, right? The donated tissue will help infants and adults in the future. I cannot for the life of me understand why so may of you are resistant to, with the understanding that no matter what the baby is going to be dead, using tissue to further medical advancements

Wrong only select body parts are used for research and profit the rest and majority of the unborn are just trashed. Even our worst criminals bodies are treated with more care after death than the aborted unborn in PP.
 

Kdall

BANNED
Banned
Wrong only select body parts are used for research and profit the rest and majority of the unborn are just trashed. Even our worst criminals bodies are treated with more care after death than the aborted unborn in PP.

I'm not really sure what you want them to do. Would you feel better about it if they held a memorial service before every dissection?
 

jeffblue101

New member
This article, especially the segments you boldened, strongly supports the idea that fetal tissue can be overwhelmingly beneficial to research. In fact it seems to be even more beneficial than I previously thought
So in the future, you would be okay with sarficing the lives of the unborn just to get their body parts for "cures"?
 

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
You are free to make any assumptions you like, their accuracy might be called into question, but you are free none the less.

Well since you won't answer a direct question then assumptions are all were left with.
 

jeffblue101

New member
I'm not really sure what you want them to do. Would you feel better about it if they held a memorial service before every dissection?
I would feel better if the unborn was not killed in the first place, but the main point is that your argument of research or trash is nonsense since the unburn are still trashed which runs contray to ethical treatment of human cadavers in the medical field.
 

Kdall

BANNED
Banned
I would feel better if the unborn was not killed in the first place, but the main point is that your argument of research or trash is nonsense since the unburn are still trashed which runs contray to ethical treatment of human cadavers in the medical field.

Again, we're talking about dead fetuses here. I don't want them to die either, but they did. And now we can either pout about it and trash ALL (satisfied?) of them, or we can utilize their tissues and make lemonade out of lemons. Which do you prefer?
 
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