10 Vaccines That Saved The World

[BigBoof1959]

Is that Dr David Brownstein, the chap that encourages overdosing on iodine as an alternative to surgery, radiation or chemotherapy for cancer?

:think:

I don't care if it was a dog howling the words "Dr. Thompson at the CDC purposely left out data that suggested a link between the MMR vaccine and autism". The reputation of someone pointing out a fact does not negate the fact pointed out.

 

[Tyrathca]

I don't care if it was a dog howling the words "Dr. Thompson at the CDC purposely left out data that suggested a link between the MMR vaccine and autism". The reputation of someone pointing out a fact does not negate the fact pointed out.

If someone has a long history of lying then that certainly seems relevant when considering believing any claims they have to "facts".

 

[BigBoof1959]

Are you claiming that not only is autism actually an epigenetic condition but also that vaccines affect epigenetic AND it affects epigenetic in such a way as to cause autism? That is some massive evidence free over-reach.

Read the first line of the abstract for this paper -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2909294/

It was written in 2006, and in the conclusion it states that up to that point, research in the genetic role in autism was not structured to look at epigenetics, and that this is a promising area for more study.

Then take a gander at this - http://www.researchgate.net/profile..._disorders/links/0deec51a7a5114033b000000.pdf

And this - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3196884/
DISCUSSION

This study used a novel 4C analysis in order to gain insight into the role that chromatin structure plays in the regulation of 15q11.2–13.3 genes. These results provide many insights into the organization and regulation of this locus. Primarily, these results indicate that PWS-IC interactions within 15q11.2–13.3 are dynamic during neuronal maturation, suggesting dramatic chromatin remodeling at this chromosomal subregion. These results complement studies of the 15q11.2–13.3 syntenic region 7q5 in the mouse brain that show a developmentally regulated decondensation of Snrpn-Ube3A preceding an exponential rise in SnoRNA accumulation and maturation (10). Together, these in vitro and in vivo results suggest that chromatin decondensation and remodeling regulates 15q11.2–13.3 gene transcription during neuronal maturation.

The PWS-IC is a well-characterized long-range control element of 15q11.2–13.3 (51). 4C chromatin structure results confirmed by FISH analyses showed that the PWS-IC makes specific contact with sites flanking CHRFAM7A and CHRNA7 in maturing neurons. FISH analysis of 15q11.2–13.3 conformation in developing SH-SY5Y neurons also revealed PWS-IC and CHRNA7 signal disassociation, consistent with decondensation of the intervening chromatin at this locus during neuronal maturation on one allele. Again, this result is consistent with previous in vivo results by Leung et al. (10), where the 15q11.2–13.3/7q5 paternal allele visualized by FISH analysis becomes strikingly decondensed during neuronal development . 4C chromatin structure analysis also reveals a PWS-IC interaction site upstream of GABRB3, a neuro-developmentally essential gene known to be dysregulated by loss of MeCP2 (27,38). Therefore, chromatin structure analysis directed our hypothesis that CHRNA7 makes a functional molecular connection with the PWS-IC. Although ICs can regulate imprinted gene expression over several megabases, it is surprising that the PWS-IC may epigenetically regulate CHRNA7, which is over 7 Mb away..... Epigenetic mechanisms contribute to multiple neurologic disorders (26,65). Specifically, previous results have clearly demonstrated that loss or altered expression of the epigenetic factor MeCP2 leads to severe defects in neurologic development characteristic of Rett syndrome (57). Although the mechanisms underlying the Rett phenotype are not completely understood, the results presented here suggest that MeCP2 acting through the PWS-IC may contribute to the precise epigenetic 15q11.2–13.3 chromatin remodeling process that regulates expression of CHRNA7 and other key genes such as GABRB3 and UBE3A during neuronal maturation. Therefore, aberrant 15q11.2–13.3 chromatin remodeling caused by defects in MeCP2 mutation or deficiency could lead to neurodevelopmental gene dysregulation and thereby contribute significantly to the overlapping Rett and autism phenotypes. A recent phase 2 clinical trial of a CHRNA7 partial agonist in schizophrenic patients significantly reduced negative symptoms, and suggests a potential therapeutic strategy for Rett and autism patients (66).[/QUOTE]

But it's not just the USA. Are all Western countries public health departments corrupt? In Australia advertising of prescription drugs is still heavily regulated and our mainly government funding of healthcare means we have a strong incentive to keep costs down (don't get me started on the USA's broken system, both political and health)

The reason I brought up advertising was not directly related to the condition of our public health agencies. It is related to the functioning of those agencies mainly from the standpoint of affecting the decisions made by media outlets as to what information they will dispense to the general voting public, who elect the officials responsible for overseeing said agencies. They are not as likely to give out as much information if it might piss off a corporation that spends millions on advertising with them. If you were to waiting on the evening news to tell you about the research into epigenetics and autism, it is no wonder you were surprised when I brought it up. I decided to type "epigenetics autism spectrum disorders NBC CBS FOX CNN" and "epigenetic autism NBC CBS FOX CNN" in google and after wading through the first 7 or 8 pages on each, found only a few results from the mainstream on autism, and none that had anything to do with epigenetics.

 

[BigBoof1959]

If someone has a long history of lying then that certainly seems relevant when considering believing any claims they have to "facts".

Then google Dr. William Thompson and pick a source for the same story from someone who suits your taste. Mr. brownstein did not put the words in Dr. Thampson's mouth when he admitted under oath that he withheld pertinent information on a major study.

 

[BigBoof1959]

And here we come to the conspiracy theory: "Big Pharma" is out to make "Big Bucks" off of the "Big Vaccine" industry, and of course they must lie about the safety and efficacy of vaccines in order for them to achieve that goal, because we all know that vaccines are both dangerous and don't actually immunize anyone against anything, right?

Yes, vaccination does turn a profit, just as anything must turn a profit in order to remain in business. But the fact is that "Big Pharma" would actually make much more money by skipping the vaccines totally and just making pharmaceutical drugs to treat people after they've contracted a communicable disease. But if they did that, they'd be living in a much more dangerous world.

The loss of money made off vaccines is the least of their worries if it was shown that the vaccines caused harm. It is the public reputation and credibility of the companies making the vaccines that is at stake. They could lose a lot of other business which is more profitable.

 

[gcthomas]

Then google Dr. William Thompson and pick a source for the same story from someone who suits your taste. Mr. brownstein did not put the words in Dr. Thampson's mouth when he admitted under oath that he withheld pertinent information on a major study.

Thompson is a full scale antivaxer, ranting about big pharma and conspiracy theories that do not appear to have any actual evidence to back them up.

Can you support his wilder claims?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Yes, vaccination does turn a profit, just as anything must turn a profit in order to remain in business. But the fact is that "Big Pharma" would actually make much more money by skipping the vaccines totally and just making pharmaceutical drugs to treat people after they've contracted a communicable disease. But if they did that, they'd be living in a much more dangerous world.

Actually, "Big Pharma" would make a hundred times the money they could make by treating communicable diseases by giving vaccines and then treating the numerous non-communicable maladies created by the vaccines that show up years later so "Big Pharma" can claim that the vaccines are unrelated to the maladies they create.

 

[User Name]

Actually, "Big Pharma" would make a hundred times the money they could make by treating communicable diseases by giving vaccines and then treating the numerous non-communicable maladies created by the vaccines that show up years later so "Big Pharma" can claim that the vaccines are unrelated to the maladies they create.

So you're admitting that vaccines provide immunization against disease? You're making progress! :thumb:

I'm just not sure where the all of those "non-communicable maladies created by the vaccines" are.

Would you say that the dangerous side effects of vaccines are greater than, equal to, or less than the dangers posed by the diseases they help to prevent?

 

[genuineoriginal]

So you're admitting that vaccines provide immunization against disease? You're making progress! :thumb:

No, I was responding to your claim that "Big Pharma" could make more money by treating a communicable disease than curing it.

We both know the truth that flue vaccines spread the very diseases they claim to treat.

I'm just not sure where the all of those "non-communicable maladies created by the vaccines" are.

There is big money to be had in treating these maladies:

_____
Vaccines and Neurological Damage

List of Vaccination-induced Neurological disorders:

Encephalitis
Ataxia/Apraxia
Retardation
Meningitis Paralysis
Paralytis polio
Ms Gullain Barre Syndrome
Lupus
Hyperactivity - ADD, LD
Demyelinization diseases
Auto-immune Diseases Epilepsy
Convulsions - Seizures
Blindness
Deafness
SIDS
Epilepsy
Mental confusion - lowered IQ
Brain tumors (SV-40)
This list was generated from a variety of resources and is not, by any means, all inclusive.
_____​

Would you say that the dangerous side effects of vaccines are greater than, equal to, or less than the dangers posed by the diseases they help to prevent?

The dangerous side effects are much greater than the danger posed by the diseases that are not really prevented by the vaccines.

 

[Tyrathca]

Read the first line of the abstract for this paper -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2909294/

It was written in 2006, and in the conclusion it states that up to that point, research in the genetic role in autism was not structured to look at epigenetics, and that this is a promising area for more study.

Then take a gander at this - http://www.researchgate.net/profile..._disorders/links/0deec51a7a5114033b000000.pdf

And this - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3196884/
DISCUSSION

What is your point? None of that shows that autism is caused by epigenetics, I'm not claiming that it definitely isn't but so far there is no data to my knowledge to say it is. And definitely none of it said anything about vaccines causing epigenetic change let alone epigenetic change that causes autism. You're piling assumption based on assumption on assumption.

The only reason you have for claiming such an evidence free link and causative mechanism is you are already wedded to the idea of vaccines causing autism.

The reason I brought up advertising was not directly related to the condition of our public health agencies. It is related to the functioning of those agencies mainly from the standpoint of affecting the decisions made by media outlets as to what information they will dispense to the general voting public, who elect the officials responsible for overseeing said agencies. They are not as likely to give out as much information if it might piss off a corporation that spends millions on advertising with them. If you were to waiting on the evening news to tell you about the research into epigenetics and autism, it is no wonder you were surprised when I brought it up. I decided to type "epigenetics autism spectrum disorders NBC CBS FOX CNN" and "epigenetic autism NBC CBS FOX CNN" in google and after wading through the first 7 or 8 pages on each, found only a few results from the mainstream on autism, and none that had anything to do with epigenetics.

My point still stands, in other countries such as mine such a conflict of interest does not exist as companies can't advertise much so news agencies won't care as much.

 

[User Name]

No, I was responding to your claim that "Big Pharma" could make more money by treating a communicable disease than curing it.

We both know the truth that flue vaccines spread the very diseases they claim to treat.

There is big money to be had in treating these maladies:

_____
Vaccines and Neurological Damage

List of Vaccination-induced Neurological disorders:

Encephalitis
Ataxia/Apraxia
Retardation
Meningitis Paralysis
Paralytis polio
Ms Gullain Barre Syndrome
Lupus
Hyperactivity - ADD, LD
Demyelinization diseases
Auto-immune Diseases Epilepsy
Convulsions - Seizures
Blindness
Deafness
SIDS
Epilepsy
Mental confusion - lowered IQ
Brain tumors (SV-40)
This list was generated from a variety of resources and is not, by any means, all inclusive.
_____​

The dangerous side effects are much greater than the danger posed by the diseases that are not really prevented by the vaccines.

Wow, that's quite a list--and it's incomplete to boot! So vaccines are not only totally ineffective at preventing disease but they are also dangerous, and they are made to be dangerous by Big Pharma so that they can increase their income by treating the diseases and ailments they create through vaccine injuries? This must surely be the mother of all conspiracy theories!

But let's employ some deductive reasoning and think about it: How is it that I and everyone I know of has had scores of vaccinations throughout our lives, and yet none of us has these ailments?

 

[Tyrathca]

We both know the truth that flue vaccines spread the very diseases they claim to treat.

Not only is that paranoia run rampant it is just made up. Besides how does it spread it? Do people become carriers after inoculation or do they get the full flu? What % get infected and what % are symptom free?

Surely a government or two or a few thousand doctors and scientists would notice that the vaccine was having they opposite affect intended and get rather mad. After all of they were doing it that would be causing large costs to public healthcare.

There is big money to be had in treating these maladies:

_____
Vaccines and Neurological Damage

List of Vaccination-induced Neurological disorders:

Encephalitis
Ataxia/Apraxia
Retardation
Meningitis Paralysis
Paralytis polio
Ms Gullain Barre Syndrome
Lupus
Hyperactivity - ADD, LD
Demyelinization diseases
Auto-immune Diseases Epilepsy
Convulsions - Seizures
Blindness
Deafness
SIDS
Epilepsy
Mental confusion - lowered IQ
Brain tumors (SV-40)
This list was generated from a variety of resources and is not, by any means, all inclusive.
_____​

The dangerous side effects are much greater than the danger posed by the diseases that are not really prevented by the vaccines.

Did you see my post on DHMO? Maybe if we removed that the side affects of vaccines would be more tolerable.

Hmmmm... Aren't many of those side affects also possible complications of many common virus or bacteria? Hmmmm....

 

[annabenedetti]

Did you see my post on DHMO? Maybe if we removed that the side affects of vaccines would be more tolerable.

I did.

I mean, I did! :shocked:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Did you see my post on DHMO? Maybe if we removed that the side affects of vaccines would be more tolerable.

Have you read the MSDH for DHMO?

It states, "Dihydrogen monoxide (also known as hydric acid) is responsible for injury, death, and property damage all over the world."

Despite the dangers, DHMO is also promoted as a health supplement.
After researching the dangers and benefits of DHMO many years ago, I started a health regimen that includes drinking up to 8 8oz glasses of undiluted DHMO every day.

DHMO has provided a number of health benefits, but DHMO does not seem to be effective in preventing nor in mitigating the harmful effects of vaccinations.

 

[User Name]

How is it that I and everyone I know of has had scores of vaccinations throughout our lives, and yet none of us has these ailments?

:think:

 

[genuineoriginal]

How is it that I and everyone I know of has had scores of vaccinations throughout our lives, and yet none of us has these ailments?

Who says you don't have them?

Mental confusion - lowered IQ

 

[User Name]

Who says you don't have them?

Who says I do? Nobody who knows me. IQ? 130. Mental confusion? Not a problem. Sorry.

I also don't know anyone with problems stemming from low IQ or mental confusion, and they've all had plenty of vaccinations throughout their lives.

 

[Tyrathca]

Who says I do? Nobody who knows me. IQ? 130. Mental confusion? Not a problem. Sorry.

I also don't know anyone with problems stemming from low IQ or mental confusion, and they've all had plenty of vaccinations throughout their lives.

I'd have to agree here too, practically every person I know with a high IQ (which by nature of where I work is a lot of people) has had vaccines both as children and as adults. I've also heard of no studies which show a lower intelligence among vaccinated vs not vaccinated.

 

[genuineoriginal]

How is it that I and everyone I know of has had scores of vaccinations throughout our lives, and yet none of us has these ailments?

Actually, the real answer is in how those ailments are formed.

The ailments in the list are a result of a failure in the auto-immune system.
In many cases it is caused by the auto-immune system constantly fighting against infections causing constant low-level inflammations in many sites.
These low-level inflammations are typically not a problem for healthy people, but when the auto-immune system is overtaxed, it goes into overdrive and starts attacking healthy cells.
This is then classified as an auto-immune disease, and is the primary cause of the ailments.

The auto-immune diseases do not appear in every person and are often attributed to the final infection that put the auto-immune system into overdrive without considering all the infections caused by the immunizations that set up the conditions where the auto-immune system would fail.

In addition to this, there are unusual microorganisms called mycoplasma fermentans that are in a number of the vaccinations given out (whether intentionally or unintentionally).
Mycoplasma fermentan is usually found in the mouth and does not survive the digestive fluids, but when they are injected directly into the body with a vaccine they are able to bypass the natural defense mechanisms.
These mycoplasma fermentans then infect the white blood cells, changing their function.

So, if you and your friends are not experiencing these ailments, it is only because your immune system is still functioning the way it is supposed to.
Over time this will change as the body's functions start to deteriorate, and you and your friends may start to manifest these ailments in the later stages of life.
Also, if you experience a significant amount of trauma or a communicable disease that overtaxes your immune system, this could also trigger the ailments.

 

[User Name]

if you and your friends are not experiencing these ailments, it is only because your immune system is still functioning the way it is supposed to.
Over time this will change as the body's functions start to deteriorate, and you and your friends may start to manifest these ailments in the later stages of life.

Where is your evidence which shows that people who have had multiple vaccinations are less healthy later in life or live shorter lifespans than those who have not received vaccinations?