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It's not that I don't see your point--I disagree with it. What you say may have been true for a time, but it did not continue that way, as evidenced in the scriptures.

Yes, Christ's resurrection. But that means that the state they are in RIGHT NOW (when Paul wrote), was of the same stripe as perished.

Not lost forever, perhaps, but also not certain: notice the "may".

You mean like Paul does? 1 Corinthians 12:2 (KJV) Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led. So why can't Peter mean the same thing as Paul? Like so: Ephesians 2:11 (KJV) Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who...

Except Jesus knew from the beginning who would betray him.

The apostles may have started base, but they changed.

Then why would that be necessary, if everyone is still alive after they die? I maintain that Paul used "perish" to indicate they were dead with no coming back--not just alive in another place.

I would think you of all people would understand the grace potential for Aaron. Of course you're right about that, but how would God do it? Might he even threaten to annihilate the whole crew and start over with someone who would be more faithful?

I don't see why this is an issue on either side of this debate. Neither Paul's nor Peter's gospel says we can worship other gods with impunity.

I haven't heard that one for awhile. Thanks for posting it. I'm not sure it's quite as much of a slam dunk as you think. The question that remains is whether Jesus thought "asleep" referred to the body only, or to the whole person. You and I would agree it means the whole person. But the...

You've negated any argument that says they were preaching different gospels at the same time. So while Paul was preaching the gospel of grace, according to you, the 12 could not have been preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Therefore Peter's gospel, including when he wrote his epistles, must...

Gentile Christians don't have to endure to the end? 2 Thessalonians 1:4-5 (KJV) 4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye...

Maybe they were blinded by the 12's gospel so they couldn't see Paul's gospel.

so do you think there's any benefit for Jews to choose one gospel over the other?

Since man is dead in sins, according to your doctrine, before God makes him alive enough to hear and respond to the gospel, why does God then need to harden some people whom He doesn’t desire to save? Romans 9:18 (CSB) So then, he has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy and he hardens whom he...

Just as clearly Paul NEVER stopped preaching to Jews as a people, as shown in Acts 28. He continued to go to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles.

Paul never said the word, "trinity," either. Do you think he's preaching a gospel in Acts 28? Which one and to whom?

That's kinda funny, because you said the gospels were different, I disagreed and said Peter and Paul preached the same gospel. You are saying Peter preached the gospel of the kingdom, and Acts 28--the very last verse in narrative form in the whole bible about Paul--says Paul was preaching the...

You seem upset.

I think the mystery is more that Gentiles were to be included than that it's a different gospel.