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  1. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    Good question. I would say it means actively participating in the mechanism of death, at least for this discussion. Eg., if you pull the trigger, even if someone else is holding the gun. That's astute of you. I'm not sure that's true. The average human being would probably think there is some...
  2. Derf

    A Moment of Honesty From an Atheist

    One would have to be both honest and moral to do that.
  3. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    There are two parts of Jesus' point, dealing with 1. His death, and 2. His resurrection. His laying down of His life is not suicide. He doesn't take His own life, but He goes to His death by other parties willingly. Do you agree so far? Yet He He says he lays it down "of himself". So "of...
  4. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    Be careful. The logic you're using suggests Jesus killed Himself, too. We know that didn't happen. So the wording of the verse, using "power" (sometimes translated "authority") is not that He was able to kill Himself, but that He offered His life willingly. And the power to take it up again says...
  5. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    I think you will find the definition holds even in secular topics. Faith includes stuff like sitting down in a chair--you expect it will hold you. Sometimes our faith can be placed in untested powers (like a chair you've just constructed), but not at all unknowingly. Sometimes the powers are not...
  6. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    Not "unknowns", but "unrealizeds". Faith is that the higher power you trust will be able to accomplish the things He said He would.
  7. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    So you're saying that this: ---Job 1:6 KJV — Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.--- Means that people (men) are presenting themselves before God? And Satan is among the men? It makes me think you're the one with the...
  8. Derf

    How to respond to classical theists who dodge Open Theism arguments

    If it did, then Satan would have sound reasoning.
  9. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    Either way, you both think men were doomed before the bible says they existed.
  10. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    You mean, because that's all the good it's doing? You should then question your presuppositions.
  11. Derf

    A little comedy break....

    I love Walz in the Elmer Fudd get-up. That's perfect!
  12. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    Who are you talking to? You should use the "reply" and "quote" features so that it doesn't look like you are talking to the air. Or use the "@username" feature to direct it to somebody without reply or quote.
  13. Derf

    How to respond to classical theists who dodge Open Theism arguments

    That's the whole point of what I said: Without God's Spirit, one cannot understand and accept God's wisdom. Iow, you end up accepting a different understanding of God's wisdom, a false understanding. So what is that spirit of God? Isn't it a desire to know what He is trying to tell us, rather...
  14. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    Not that part...the part where you say that some people were doomed to hell before the foundation of the world.
  15. Derf

    How to respond to classical theists who dodge Open Theism arguments

    Only, I think, if you don't read it with too many preconceptions about what it's going to tell you.
  16. Derf

    The Election was Stolen - PERIOD!

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/11/good-news-conservatives-finally-feel-safe-enough-discuss/ I'm more than a little curious how Trump's popular vote totals went down so much between 2020 and 2024. Some of the talk in 2020 was that a program was inflating both totals based on an algorithm...
  17. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    That's not what happened to Cornelius. Acts 10:2 KJV — A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
  18. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    Of course no one can be saved without God's gift of Jesus Christ. Are you saying there's another way?
  19. Derf

    How to respond to classical theists who dodge Open Theism arguments

    My journey was more "through" reformed circles rather than "from" them. But I also believe the reformed ideas make more sense than the Baptistic ones about how God could know our eventual decision(s). Edit: I should add that I think Open Theism is closer to Reformed thought than Baptist in...
  20. Derf

    Understanding God’s election

    In other words, your doctrine makes our life on earth of no account...just like Calvinism. It seems like you are stuck trying to refute Calvinism without a reasonable alternative. Of course all people are condemned to death, but it's because of Adam's sin and the consequences that come from...
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