You think that Abraham thought that God was going to murder?
Because that's not what he said.
Stop thinking like a modern person. How would the rest of the ancient world have perceived God's actions? How God's actions have affected His reputation?
What Is Morality, and is it Absolute?
- Thread starter JudgeRightly
- Start date
You think that Abraham thought that God was going to murder?
Because that's not what he said.
Stop thinking like a modern person. How would the rest of the ancient world have perceived God's actions? How God's actions have affected His reputation?
Derf
Well-known member
Murder could also be defined as an unjust killing of a human. Abraham questioned whether that would have been right for God to do. @Right Divider said it was blasphemy to question whether God could murder, so it seems like Abraham is guilty of RD's blasphemy charge. I don't understand why your other questions, because they don't address the point where the conversation was.
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Right Divider
Body part
No, I was accusing you of that in the post that I quoted.
Abraham never accuses God of murder. That seems to be an idea that you've invented in your mind.
Abraham attempted to "save the righteous" in Sodom. The problem is that there are none righteous, as demonstrated by scripture.
Rom 3:10-18 (AKJV/PCE)
(3:10) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (3:11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. (3:12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (3:13) Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips: (3:14) Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness: (3:15) Their feet [are] swift to shed blood: (3:16) Destruction and misery [are] in their ways: (3:17) And the way of peace have they not known: (3:18) There is no fear of God before their eyes.
God, being the author of Life, has the right to take life at His will. That is NOT murder. Everyone, save the Lord Jesus Christ, deserves to die.
Derf
Well-known member
Oh, you're right. I thought it was still @Nick M. Sorry to both of you for the mistake.
No, he didn't accuse God of murder, but he questioned whether God would be just killing the righteous with the wicked.
Hardly, since you refer to it below.
You believe that babies in the womb deserve to die??
But even if babies deserve to die, as you are now on record as saying, God's answer to Abraham was not, "there is none righteous, no not one," but His answer was that He would grant Abraham's request not to destroy the righteous with the wicked, either by not destroying the city if 10 righteous were found, or by taking the righteous out of the city, as happened, to save them from destruction.
When it comes to what God does or does not do, there can be no such thing as an unwarranted action.
God is a NECESSARY being, Derf!
God is NECESSARILY just.
He is NECESSARILY righteous in all ways.
An unwarranted action of God is literally a contradiction. It cannot happen.
That does not mean that whatever God does is righteous merely because God does it. Rather, God's necessary righteousness means that His nature is such that He will never act contrary to what is right.
As for God taking someone from this physical life to the after life...
God is our Creator. We only have life to begin with because He gives it to us. It is His life and He has the ABSOLUTE right to do with that life as He sees fit. Not only that, but the end of one's physical life is not the end of their existence. God can deal with people on an individual basis in due time. In any case, there can be no such thing as God murdering someone. That is a contradiction.
As for the inhabitants of Sodom, every breath any of them took was a mercy. Indeed, that is true of not just the citizens of Sodom, but of Abraham himself and of you and of me and every other member of Adam's race that draws breath.
Further, Abraham's argument in the passage you're referring to presupposes that God's character is righteous and that God's conduct will necessarily conform to that character.
Lastly, you really do need to check your attitude! You need to remember that you will one day give an account for every idle word you speak and to give that fact some long hard thinking time before you show up talking about God murdering people. Blasphemy is a real thing and it is no joke, Derf!
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Right Divider
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That was Abraham's issue. Abraham made many mistakes in judgement throughout his life (... we all do).
I believe that God has the right to reclaim any life that He has created. God cannot be a murderer.
Does the Bible record God as finding ten righteous men in the city? (Hint: nope)
Was the city destroyed? (Hint: yes).
God did Lot a favor and forcibly removed him, his wife, and his two daughters (sans husbands) from the city before its destruction.
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Derf
Well-known member
So Abraham thought God could possibly be taking a life unrighteously. Thanks for validating my position, and showing that, you've grouped me, the most despicable person on TOL, with Abraham.
But your argument was that they deserve it. Deserved death is by definition not murder, so that would support your position, but it is also a position you don't usually advocate--that innocents are deserving of death. If I remember correctly, Bob's argument for why God can take an innocent human life was that He wasn't really killing them, but moving them from one plane of existence to another. All that tells me is that Bob didn't believe that humans ever die, which seems to be an anti-biblical position. And it would justify abortion and murder, since we would merely be moving the humans to a different plane of existence. I could be wrong...maybe that was Dominic Enyart.
Do you have a point to make here, one that might be related to my post?
Right Divider
Body part
I doubt that that is was what Abraham actually thought. He was probably just looking out for his nephew (i.e., bargaining).
You are a retarded moron.
My argument is that everyone deserves death. You seem to think that there is some chance of a baby living a sinless life. Only one ever did that and that was our Lord Jesus Christ.
There are no innocents in the ultimate sense. When the Bible talks about a righteous man... it is speaking in relative terms with other men.
Physical death is not the end of a person, so that's a fairly reasonable argument.
You keep trying to blur issues. It's the only way that you can convince yourself that you have a point.
Only God has the RIGHT to do such a thing... you despicable moron.
You're wrong about tons of things... so that would not be a surprise.
Yes, but you're unable to understand much... so I won't bother to continue with it.