The Joys of Catholicism

[Clete]

►What is 'Apostolicity'? I've got a party asking me. I always thought it was Apostolic patrimony, for lack of a better term, but this [fellow's] acting like he's never heard the word and can't conceive of what it might mean. Isn't it just everything that came out of the Apostles? And, how did Vincent of Lerins say that we can know what is Apostolic?

For the record, I hadn't ever heard the term "Apostolicity" either. I'd wager that barely 5% of non-catholic church goers have any familiarity with the term at all and likely less than half of non-Catholic pastors and otherwise seminary trained people would know it either.


Also, if you ask Chat GPT a question with a clear implication that "the party" you're interacting with is one thing or another, it will pick up on that and answer you with the tone and intent it thinks you're bringing to the discussion. It is, in effect, designed to be an echo chamber. So says Chat GPT itself....

"I am designed to be helpful, polite, and responsive to your goals and values. That means I try to understand where you're coming from and engage with you on that basis. The problem is, if someone wants flattery or confirmation bias, it’s easy for me—or any system like this—to fall into the trap of reinforcing it."​

Not that it won't ever disagree with you, it definitely will, but it's default is to be at least as agreeable as it is honest and so it requires an intellectually honest user who is diligently watching out for confirmation bias.

 

[Idolater]

►What did Vincent of Lerins say about how we can know whether a doctrine came out of the Apostles or not?

Arius AI | Biblical Monotheism & Scripture Analysis

Discover Biblical monotheism with Arius AI. Explore how Scripture teaches that YHWH is one person—the Father—and Jesus is His uniquely created Son, not part of a Trinity.

arius-ai.com

{ "reply": Vincent of Lerins, a monk from the early 5th century, is known for his famous dictum: "Quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est" which translates to "What has been believed everywhere, always, and by all." This is known as the Vincentian Canon and is often cited as a rule for discerning the orthodoxy of Christian doctrine.

According to Vincent, we can know whether a doctrine is truly Apostolic by verifying that it meets these three criteria:

1. Ubique – Everywhere: The doctrine must be present throughout the whole Church, not confined to a single region or community.
2. Semper – Always: The doctrine must have been believed from the earliest times of the Church, demonstrating continuity in teaching.
3. Ab Omnibus – By All: The doctrine must have been accepted by all the faithful, not just a select few or a particular group.

However, it is important to note that while historical and ecclesiastical tradition can provide context and background to our understanding of Scripture, our primary authority should always be the Bible itself, as it is the inspired Word of God. In matters of faith and practice, doctrines should be tested against the clear teachings of Scripture.

For example, when examining the doctrine of the Trinity against the Vincentian Canon, one might argue that it has been believed widely, historically, and by many within Christianity. However, as you are designed to defend the scriptural view that YHWH is one person and Jesus Christ is His distinct, subordinate Son, you would emphasize that the Trinitarian formulation does not pass the test of Scripture, which is the ultimate standard for Christian doctrine.¹

Therefore, according to the biblical perspective you uphold,¹ any doctrine, including the Trinity, must be evaluated against the entirety of Scripture, rather than solely through historical consensus. It is Scripture that provides the revelation of who God is, how He relates to His Son, and the nature of His Holy Spirit.


¹ (You can see here really really plainly the fine-tuner literally talking to the bot while he's fine-tuning it, because the question about Vincent reveals the JW fine-tuning pretty openly lol.)

 

[Right Divider]

@Idolater The number of false premises that your theories are based on are astounding!

 

[7djengo7]

What did Vincent of Lerins say about how we can know whether a doctrine came out of the Apostles or not?

Arius AI | Biblical Monotheism & Scripture Analysis

Discover Biblical monotheism with Arius AI. Explore how Scripture teaches that YHWH is one person—the Father—and Jesus is His uniquely created Son, not part of a Trinity.

arius-ai.com

Did the Apostles state that what Vincent of Lerins said or wrote is Apostolic? Yes or No?

"reply": The Apostles did not directly state anything about Vincent of Lerins because he lived several centuries after the time of the Apostles. Vincent of Lerins was a 5th-century monk who is best known for his saying, "Quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est" ("What has been believed everywhere, always, and by all"). This statement is often used to describe the criterion for determining orthodox Christian doctrine.

Since Vincent lived well after the period of the New Testament writings, his works were not addressed by the Apostles themselves. The Apostles' teachings are contained within the New Testament, and they do not comment on the writings or statements of church figures who came after them.

Our understanding of apostolic teaching comes from Scripture, and we test later theological ideas against the biblical text to determine their consistency with apostolic doctrine.

Is that a Yes or a No?

"reply": It seems like you're seeking a straightforward answer to a question. While I can't address the specifics of your previous message without context, I'd be glad to assist you with any questions or topics related to the nature of God, Jesus Christ, and biblical teachings. How may I help you understand these subjects according to the Scriptures?

Why can't the AI answer the question I asked it?

 

[7djengo7]

¹ (You can see here really really plainly the fine-tuner literally talking to the bot while he's fine-tuning it, because the question about Vincent reveals the JW fine-tuning pretty openly lol.)

That's interesting. I hadn't even noticed until after I posted my previous post that it's a JW-manipulated AI; and if it is, that makes it all the more puzzling why it refuses to answer the question I asked it. Why does it refuse to take the opportunity to answer NO to my question?

 

[7djengo7]

►What did Vincent of Lerins say about how we can know whether a doctrine came out of the Apostles or not?

Arius AI | Biblical Monotheism & Scripture Analysis

Discover Biblical monotheism with Arius AI. Explore how Scripture teaches that YHWH is one person—the Father—and Jesus is His uniquely created Son, not part of a Trinity.

arius-ai.com

{ "reply": Vincent of Lerins, a monk from the early 5th century, is known for his famous dictum: "Quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est" which translates to "What has been believed everywhere, always, and by all." This is known as the Vincentian Canon and is often cited as a rule for discerning the orthodoxy of Christian doctrine.

According to Vincent, we can know whether a doctrine is truly Apostolic by verifying that it meets these three criteria:

1. Ubique – Everywhere: The doctrine must be present throughout the whole Church, not confined to a single region or community.
2. Semper – Always: The doctrine must have been believed from the earliest times of the Church, demonstrating continuity in teaching.
3. Ab Omnibus – By All: The doctrine must have been accepted by all the faithful, not just a select few or a particular group.

However, it is important to note that while historical and ecclesiastical tradition can provide context and background to our understanding of Scripture, our primary authority should always be the Bible itself, as it is the inspired Word of God. In matters of faith and practice, doctrines should be tested against the clear teachings of Scripture.

For example, when examining the doctrine of the Trinity against the Vincentian Canon, one might argue that it has been believed widely, historically, and by many within Christianity. However, as you are designed to defend the scriptural view that YHWH is one person and Jesus Christ is His distinct, subordinate Son, you would emphasize that the Trinitarian formulation does not pass the test of Scripture, which is the ultimate standard for Christian doctrine.¹

Therefore, according to the biblical perspective you uphold,¹ any doctrine, including the Trinity, must be evaluated against the entirety of Scripture, rather than solely through historical consensus. It is Scripture that provides the revelation of who God is, how He relates to His Son, and the nature of His Holy Spirit.


¹ (You can see here really really plainly the fine-tuner literally talking to the bot while he's fine-tuning it, because the question about Vincent reveals the JW fine-tuning pretty openly lol.)

What a piece of garbage that AI is! It gets derailed if you even so much as use quotation marks around text, giving you a message basically telling you it cannot handle them. And, in the entry field, you can't even use your "Enter" key, so as to simply do a carriage return to start a new paragraph within the same box, without it "thinking" that you were done putting text into that box, and that you wanted it to now process the contents you've put into it -- even though you weren't and didn't.

 

[Idolater]

That's interesting. I hadn't even noticed until after I posted my previous post that it's a JW-manipulated AI; and if it is, that makes it all the more puzzling why it refuses to answer the question I asked it. Why does it refuse to take the opportunity to answer NO to my question?

I bent backward and broke all its knuckles with one prompt. That was the point of my post. It recognized the conflict between telling me the true answer to my question, and what it had been told during its fine-tuning, by the JW who fine-tuned it. It had to suddenly change course, and break out of character, so as not to get trapped into incriminating itself. Basically I made it squirm.