"The Divinity of Christ"

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned

The Divinity of Christ

http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/christ-divinity.htm

BRIEF EXCERPT:

The doctrine of Christ's divinity is the central Christian doctrine, for it is like a skeleton key that opens all the others. Christians have not independently reasoned out and tested each of the teachings of Christ received via Bible and Church, but believe them all on his authority. For if Christ is divine, He can be trusted to be infallible in everything He said, even hard things like exalting suffering and poverty, forbidding divorce, giving his Church the authority to teach and forgive sins in his name, warning about hell (very often and very seriously), instituting the scandalous sacrament of eating his flesh—we often forget how many "hard sayings" he taught!

When the first Christian apologists began to give a reason for the faith that was in them to unbelievers, this doctrine of Christ's divinity naturally came under attack, for it was almost as incredible to Gentiles as it was scandalous to Jews. That a man who was born out of a woman's womb and died on a cross, a man who got tired and hungry and angry and agitated and wept at his friend's tomb, that this man who got dirt under his fingernails should be God was, quite simply, the most astonishing, incredible, crazy-sounding idea that had ever entered the mind of man in all human history.

The argument the early apologists used to defend this apparently indefensible doctrine has become a classic one. C.S. Lewis used it often, e.g. in Mere Christianity, the book that convinced Chuck Colson (and thousands of others). I once spent half a book (Between Heaven and Hell) on this one argument alone. It is the most important argument in Christian apologetics, for once an unbeliever accepts the conclusion of this argument (that Christ is divine), everything else in the Faith follows, not only intellectually (Christ's teachings must all then be true) but also personally (if Christ is God, He is also your total Lord and Savior).

The argument, like all effective arguments, is extremely simple: Christ was either God or a bad man.

Unbelievers almost always say he was a good man, not a bad man; that he was a great moral teacher, a sage, a philosopher, a moralist, and a prophet, not a criminal, not a man who deserved to be crucified. But a good man is the one thing he could not possibly have been according to simple common sense and logic. For he claimed to be God. He said, "Before Abraham was, I Am", thus speaking the word no Jew dares to speak because it is God's own private name, spoken by God himself to Moses at the burning bush. Jesus wanted everyone to believe that he was God. He wanted people to worship him. He claimed to forgive everyone's sins against everyone. (Who can do that but God, the One offended in every sin?).
...(SNIP)

REST OF ARTICLE >> http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/christ-divinity.htm
 

beameup

New member
Christ's message was to his kinsmen the Israelites (Jews).
"he came unto his own, and his own received him not"
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: - Romans 15:8
The mistake is to force the Gospels to apply to the Church,
when the overwhelming message was for the Jews.

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me [Paul],
as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter - Galatians 2:7
Peter was the head Apostle to the Jews.
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned
Christ's message was to his kinsmen the Israelites (Jews).......

The Son of God came to redeem all mankind.

....The mistake is to force the Gospels to apply to the Church.....

Nonsense. The Church GAVE us the Gospels.

......Peter was the head Apostle to the Jews.

Not true. The Apostles were appointed by Christ to go forth and make disciples of ALL nations (Matthew 28:19). Your post is false and erroneous and anti-Christian.
 

beameup

New member
The Son of God came to redeem all mankind.

That was not the "topic" in my posts.
As usual, you ignore any scripture that
conflicts with your ingrained "theology".

Was the Jesuit's mission to hunt down and
murder believers that were not part of the
"State Religion", or Christians that dared
to read the Bible in their own language,
a "theology" derived from the teachings of Jesus?
 

daqq

Well-known member
JWs teach that the Archangel Michael became Jesus Christ.
Angels are created beings, therefore, JWs teach that Jesus is not Divine.

I see we were posting at the same time: to say what you say only shows that you simply do not know the scripture.
 

beameup

New member
I see we were posting at the same time: to say what you say only shows that you simply do not know the scripture.

Jehovah's Witnesses (aka: Watchtower Society) teach that Michael the Archangel became Jesus.
Since angels are created beings, that makes Michael/Jesus created by Jehovah.
__________________________________________________________________________________

The ancient Hebrew language really doesn't provide adequately for "transcendent/metaphysical" concepts, but is based on earthly realities of life. They really didn't fully comprehend the "supernatural", so the word "'elohim" is broadly applied to any and all "supernatural" beings. It's also a plural with the suffix "im" (or ym).
 

Catholic Crusader

Kyrie Eleison
Banned


QUOTE:


Christ’s divinity is shown over and over again in the New Testament. For example, in John 5:18 we are told that Jesus’ opponents sought to kill him because he "called God his Father, making himself equal with God."

In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am"—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—"I Am" (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. "So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple" (John 8:59).

In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, "My Lord and my God!" (Greek: Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou — literally, "The Lord of me and the God of me!")

In Philippians 2:6, Paul tells us that Christ Jesus "[w]ho, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be g.asped" (New International Version). So Jesus chose to be born in humble, human form though he could have simply remained in equal glory with the Father for he was "in very nature God."

Also significant are passages that apply the title "the First and the Last" to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: "Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’" (Is. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).

This title is directly applied to Jesus three times in the book of Revelation: "When I saw him [Christ], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the First and the Last’" (Rev. 1:17). "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life’" (Rev. 2:8). "Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end" (Rev. 22:12–13).

This last quote is especially significant since it applies to Jesus the parallel title "the Alpha and the Omega," which Revelation earlier applied to the Lord God: "‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8).

As the following quotes show, the early Church Fathers also recognized that Jesus Christ is God and were adamant in maintaining this precious truth
........(SNIP)

Rest of post including quotes from the early Church Fathers >> http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-divinity-of-christ
Source: LINK
 

daqq

Well-known member
Jehovah's Witnesses (aka: Watchtower Society) teach that Michael the Archangel became Jesus.
Since angels are created beings, that makes Michael/Jesus created by Jehovah.
__________________________________________________________________________________

The ancient Hebrew language really doesn't provide adequately for "transcendent/metaphysical" concepts, but is based on earthly realities of life. They really didn't fully comprehend the "supernatural", so the word "'elohim" is broadly applied to any and all "supernatural" beings. It's also a plural with the suffix "im" (or ym).

That is nothing more than your opinionated opinion and at the same time you bite the hand that feeds you because you desire to separate Messiah from his root in Tanach Scripture. The body of New Testament writings cannot be understood without Torah, Prophets, and Writings because everything relies completely on what was already written in TaNaK, (Torah, Neviim, Ketuvim). The author of Hebrews quotes from one of the passages which shows exactly whereof I speak:

Hebrews 2:6-9 KJV
6 But one hath somewhere testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? Or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; Thou crownedst him with glory and honor, And didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8 Thou didst put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he subjected all things unto him, he left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we see not yet all things subjected to him.
9 But we behold him who hath been made a little lower than the angels, even Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of God he should taste of death for every man.


But you and I have already been over this so why do you continue to post things which you know cannot be true? Is it God or angels in the above passage quoted from the Psalm? The Psalm contains the word Elohim which is rendered aggelos in both the Septuagint and in this passage of Hebrews which quotes from the Septuagint. Therefore Elohim can also mean Angels according to the ancients who rendered the Hebrew text into the Greek Septuagint some three hundred years BEFORE the advent of Messiah. There is no such thing as capitalization in either the Hebrew or Greek texts so this creates quite a dispute because of the theological implications to doctrine. Is Messiah made a little lower than the angels, or, is he made a little lower than Elohim?

Psalm 8:4-5 KJV
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the
angels, [Elohim] and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Psalm 8:4-5 ASV
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? And the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him but little lower than
God, [Elohim] And crownest him with glory and honor.

If you say that only the KJV can be correct then you only show that you are nothing more than a KJV only cultist because you care nothing for the original languages but rather exalt the KJV over all other translations just as you have already shown that you are willing to do. For the same reason you continue posting the KJVersion of Romans 15:8 everywhere even after you have been shown how and why it is flat out erroneous.
 

Caino

BANNED
Banned
In the evolution of Judaism the Jews didn't understand or believe in God having a divine Son, this was revealed in Christ. They didn't know that Michael was the Son, so they assumed he was an archangel.

Satan knew who Jesus was just as the Demons did. They knew Jesus aka Christ Michael was their creator. The rebellion against the Sons rule was a denial that the Son had a Father, the Universal Father. Lucifer & company had become atheists and launched an ideological war in heaven.
 
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