Jesus is God !

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Hilltrot

Well-known member
JudgeRightly said:
So, in other words, there's very little reason to call into question the veracity of those red letters being Christ's words?
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Remember those words you keep on inappropriately telling me, "Because you say so?"

At a certain point, you need to ask that of those like Talmage who is a Calvinist. Do you trust Talmage's Biblical interpretation? If so, why aren't you a Calvinist?

I don't ask you or anyone else to trust me. This is why I gives reasons for what I believe. Did Lon give reasons or name-dropping?
 
H

Hilltrot

Well-known member
Leatherneck said:
You might want to go to the site I’m posting to see the error and false teaching about the Bible project.com. https://thewordlikefire.wordpress.com/2020/04/29/almost-snookered-by-the-bible-project/ scroll down to the warning video it is very informative.
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Seriously though. The author is upset that Mackie won't push Anselm's atonement theory. I personally don't believe everything Mackie says and Tim Mackie is fine with that. After all, Tim Mackie is a trinitarian. So, obviously he's pretty majorly wrong with something.

If all you look for is to create dissension, then yes, you can always find someone disagreeing with someone else about something and stoke the flames.
 
Leatherneck

Leatherneck

Well-known member
Temp Banned
Hilltrot said:
Seriously though. The author is upset that Mackie won't push Anselm's atonement theory. I personally don't believe everything Mackie says and Tim Mackie is fine with that. After all, Tim Mackie is a trinitarian. So, obviously he's pretty majorly wrong with something.

If all you look for is to create dissension, then yes, you can always find someone disagreeing with someone else about something and stoke the flames.
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That is rich will not push what is clearly taught in scripture.
 
H

Hilltrot

Well-known member
Leatherneck said:
That is rich will not push what is clearly taught in scripture.
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Taught by Anselm - not scripture. That is why this atonement theory doesn't appear in history until Anselm in the late 11th century. Since Anselm was English, it became predominant among the English and their ancestors. It's in his book, "Why a God-man?", if you want to look it up.
 
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Hilltrot

Well-known member
OZOS said:
Yet, you disagree with this, is that right?
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Yes, I do. But I do not disagree with what he is trying to do. In fact, he inspired me down this road. I support the Bible Project and what it's trying to do. The Bible project is there to give enough information to get people to read the books themselves. Tim Mackie doesn't get upset if someone disagrees with him and he has generally been humble enough not to assume that he has to be right on any one issue of the Bible. He simply tries to encourage others to read the Bible.

A lot of times people complain that his videos oversimplify, but once again, he's not trying to tell people what the Bible says as much as he is trying to encourage people to read the Bible and learn for themselves.
 
OZOS

OZOS

Well-known member
Hilltrot said:
Taught by Anselm - not scripture. That is why this atonement theory doesn't appear in history until Anselm in the late 11th century. Since Anselm was English, it became predominant among the English and their ancestors. It's in his book, "Why a God-man?", if you want to look it up.
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The death of Jesus was not an atonement, but a propitiation, and there is a major difference between the two. The former covers sin, the latter takes sin away, once and for all.
 
Leatherneck

Leatherneck

Well-known member
Temp Banned
Hilltrot said:
Taught by Anselm - not scripture. That is why this atonement theory doesn't appear in history until Anselm in the late 11th century. Since Anselm was English, it became predominant among the English and their ancestors. It's in his book, "Why a God-man?", if you want to look it up.
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You obviously have no clue what propitiation means.
 
Lon

Lon

Well-known member
Hilltrot said:
So Lon, you know a little about the Old Testament, right?

What does Israel mean?
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Changing the subject? Why does this matter? Anybody with a concordance or a bit of Bible education can either remember or look it up. A better question is 'Why do Arians/Unitarians need to so often do a 'set up' with rationalizations of men?' What is abundantly clear is simply this:
John 20:28 Thomas said to Jesus, "You are the Lord of me, and God of me." Why does ANYTHING else matter? Why not simply believe the scripture? Too simplistic? Okay, fine, but that is exactly what it says. Why WOULDN'T you give God benefit of the doubt with His own conveyances? Why does a mere man want to 'qualify' what God says as if He did not? This never has made any sense to me, in all the years I've wrestled with Arians/Unitarians. It just doesn't add up to anything but rationalizations and "I'm smarter than the rest of you all put together."
 
H

Hilltrot

Well-known member
Lon said:
Changing the subject? Why does this matter?
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I didn't change the subject. If you had any clue what Israel meant, you'd know that. Maybe you should read Job as well.
Lon said:
A better question is 'Why do Arians/Unitarians need to so often do a 'set up' with rationalizations of men?'
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You've repeatedly demonstrated that you haven't read any church history whatsoever. Otherwise, you'd understand that you are far closer to an Arian belief than I am.
Lon said:
What is abundantly clear is simply this:
John 20:28 Thomas said to Jesus, "You are the Lord of me, and God of me." Why does ANYTHING else matter?
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Because context matters and quoting a verse completely out of context does not in any way prove your point. John 10:34, John 20:31

Quoting scripture out of context is an awful hermeneutic.
Lon said:
Why does ANYTHING else matter?
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Because God inspired more than one verse in the Bible.
Lon said:
Why not simply believe the scripture?
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That's a good question. Well? What's your answer?
Lon said:
Why does a mere man want to 'qualify' what God says as if He did not?
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Well, what's your answer?
Lon said:
Too simplistic?
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Another good question. Well, what's your answer? Why do you choose the most complex and least likely interpretation?
Lon said:
Okay, fine, but that is exactly what it says. Why WOULDN'T you give God benefit of the doubt with His own conveyances?
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Another good question. Well, what's your answer?
Lon said:
This never has made any sense to me
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Which is why I suggest you examine the Bible again and open your eyes to the possibility of a simpler explanation. The one that is explicitly stated in the Bible - not the one that had to be forced onto it.

Jesus is human. Jesus is the Son of God and the Messiah. Jesus died. God raise him from the dead. Is this not all explicitly and repeatedly said in the Bible? Start with that.
Lon said:
in all the years I've wrestled with Arians/Unitarians.
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You really don't know what an Arian is. I suggest you study church history with open eyes.
Lon said:
It just doesn't add up to anything but rationalizations and "I'm smarter than the rest of you all put together."
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The opposite is true. I had to humble myself to come to the realization that I had been wrong for quite some time.
 
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