Proof from the Bible that God is In Time

[chatmaggot]

10 When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he relented and did not bring on them the destruction he had threatened.

Please read this carefully.

You believe that all that happens has been preordained by God from eternity past...correct?

You state that God threatened Nineveh. However...if God threatened to destroy Nineveh knowing that He was never going to destroy Nineveh, then either God lied or He makes idle threats.

Do you understand what I am saying?

If all that happens has been predetermined by God from eternity past then God knows that He isn't going to destroy Nineveh. So if God threatened to destroy them knowing that He wasn't going to destroy them then the only two options are that God lied or that He makes idle threats akin to a parent telling a child for the 8th time that this is the last time that they are going to tell them to stop or else.

Again, do you understand what kind of position you have put yourself in? God either lied or He makes idle threats.

Which is it?

 

[sky.]

Please read this carefully.

You believe that all that happens has been preordained by God from eternity past...correct?

You state that God threatened Nineveh. However...if God threatened to destroy Nineveh knowing that He was never going to destroy Nineveh, then either God lied or He makes idle threats.

Do you understand what I am saying?

If all that happens has been predetermined by God from eternity past then God knows that He isn't going to destroy Nineveh. So if God threatened to destroy them knowing that He wasn't going to destroy them then the only two options are that God lied or that He makes idle threats akin to a parent telling a child for the 8th time that this is the last time that they are going to tell them to stop or else.

Again, do you understand what kind of position you have put yourself in? God either lied or He makes idle threats.

Which is it?

Really? I guess that's on you. You're a fool.

 

[chatmaggot]

Really? I guess that's on you. You're a fool.

Did God know from eternity past that Nineveh was going to repent as a result of Jonah preaching to the city?

 

[sky.]

Did God know from eternity past that Nineveh was going to repent as a result of Jonah preaching to the city?

Is God Omniscient?

 

[chatmaggot]

Is God Omniscient?

God knows everything knowable that He wants to know.

Now are you going to answer my question or are you going to continue to avoid my questions?

 

[sky.]

God knows everything knowable that He wants to know.

That is not even found in the Bible.

I did answer your question you just can't admit it.

 

[chatmaggot]

That is not even found in the Bible.

I did answer your question you just can't admit it.

You answered my question? Really?

I asked:

Did God know from eternity past that Nineveh was going to repent as a result of Jonah preaching to the city?

And you responded:

Is God Omniscient?

If that is the way you answer questions then have a discussion with you is no longer worthwhile.

 

[sky.]

You answered my question? Really?

I asked:



And you responded:



If that is the way you answer questions then have a discussion with you is no longer worthwhile.

You don't get any smarter do you?

 

[godrulz]

Right, who changed?



10 Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

God's character and attributes did not change, but He did not send the planned justice because the free will contingency (them) changed. So, God now wisely extended mercy, not justice. This is a conditional prophecy showing the future is partially open and dependent on other free moral agents.

God is responsive, not a rock.

Hezekiah also illustrates how God pronounced Him a dead duck (not a lie, not an idle threat) and then changed His mind in response to prayer adding 15 years to his life. Again, the future is partially open and partially closed, not fixed like the past. God's omniscience and providence is dynamic, not fatalistic.

 

[godrulz]

Is God Omniscient?

God is omniscient, but future free will contingencies are not a possible object of certain knowledge. Your view makes sense only if sheer determinism is true (at the expense of love, relationship, freedom). If the agent makes the future choice, there is an element of uncertainty until it happens, so an omniscient being would know reality as it is (possible/probable vs certain/actual in advance).

 

[godrulz]

God knows everything knowable that He wants to know.

Now are you going to answer my question or are you going to continue to avoid my questions?

...that he wants to know....this is problematic even from an Open Theism view....God knows reality as it is. He cannot choose to not know something the rest of us can know.

 

[Letsargue]

Chrysostom, the opening post explains what that means, and shows that time doesn't only apply to us but also to God, in that the eternal persons of the Trinity were different in eternity past than they are now, and as one example, God the Son was not eternally "the Son of Man."

It'd be so neat for you to respond to particulars in the Opening Post.

For example, were you surprised that all those "timelessness" phrases are from pagan Greek philosophy whereas all the phrases showing extended, unending time were from the Bible?

-Bob Enyart
KGOV.com

Are we to assume that you ( Know ) what “Time” is? – Tell us what time is, then tell us that God is ( in that thing you call time ). As far as anyone knows it’s kinda like “Gravity”. - The smart guys talk about it, but cannot say with any ( knowledge ) what “Gravity” is. - Neither can any of the Greats tell us with ( any knowledge ) what time is!! Time cannot exist as these guys describe it, because there is no existence to it, just “Theory” of its existence. So if “Time” is only a Theory, then your God in that “Theory” of time is only a Theory also, which is a nonexistence in ( Truth ). - Truth is not a “Theory”, - Knowledge is Truth, and the existence!! - God is!!

((( Just because you wrote the Thread, doesn’t mean that it’s something that can’t be debunked )))!!

Paul – 080212

 

[chatmaggot]

...that he wants to know....this is problematic even from an Open Theism view....God knows reality as it is. He cannot choose to not know something the rest of us can know.

Although it might be a figure of speech, I used the phrase "that He wants to know" because of...

Isaiah 43:25

“I, even I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake; And I will not remember your sins.

and then again in...

Hebrews 8:12

For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

and...

Hebrews 10:17

then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

The point being God isn't forced to remember all of the disgusting sinful acts committed by mankind once this age ends.

 

[godrulz]

Forgiveness is not amnesia. An omniscient God cannot cease to know what Satan, man, newspapers, films, recorders, angels, etc. still know.

Choosing to not bring it up again or relaxing the penalty of sin is more the issue than needing to forget. We forgive as humans without literally forgetting.

The proof texts are more idiomatic and we must understand omniscience in light of other principles and passages. The verses do not support a view that compromises God's omniscience. He does not have to dwell on things, but He cannot cease to know the knowable (future contingencies are inherently unknowable, but past and present issues are objects of God's certain knowledge).

You owe me $10. 'Forget it' (does not mean I go blank in my mind).

 

[sky.]

Forgiveness is not amnesia. An omniscient God cannot cease to know what Satan, man, newspapers, films, recorders, angels, etc. still know.

Choosing to not bring it up again or relaxing the penalty of sin is more the issue than needing to forget. We forgive as humans without literally forgetting.

The proof texts are more idiomatic and we must understand omniscience in light of other principles and passages. The verses do not support a view that compromises God's omniscience. He does not have to dwell on things, but He cannot cease to know the knowable (future contingencies are inherently unknowable, but past and present issues are objects of God's certain knowledge).

You owe me $10. 'Forget it' (does not mean I go blank in my mind).

The verses do not support a view that compromises God's omniscience.

That ^

future contingencies are inherently unknowable but past and present issues are objects of God's certain knowledge

Plus that ^

Nullifies God's omniscience. I see you present this same thing over and over again. Who do you think you're fooling? You're the one with your added crap that nullifies God's Omniscience.

 

[godrulz]

A Calvinist wrongly assumes sovereignty must be meticulous control. This is a wrong assumption and leads to impugning God with evil.

The classical theist wrongly assumes that the future is like the past and present or that omniscience must include exhaustive definite foreknowledge despite the problem to free will that it creates. God knows reality as it is. An agent's choices are not objects of certain knowledge before they are born to even make them. Your view begs the question and is not logically or biblically defensible.

Like the Calvinist, you put your head in the sand and believe whether it is coherent or not while rejecting views that are coherent but beyond your comprehension due to laziness, bias, ignorance, arrogance.

 

[sky.]

A Calvinist wrongly assumes sovereignty must be meticulous control. This is a wrong assumption and leads to impugning God with evil.

The classical theist wrongly assumes that the future is like the past and present or that omniscience must include exhaustive definite foreknowledge despite the problem to free will that it creates. God knows reality as it is. An agent's choices are not objects of certain knowledge before they are born to even make them. Your view begs the question and is not logically or biblically defensible.

Like the Calvinist, you put your head in the sand and believe whether it is coherent or not while rejecting views that are coherent but beyond your comprehension due to laziness, bias, ignorance, arrogance.

You're a thief.

 

[godrulz]

You're a thief.

Huh? God IS omniscient, but we differ on what are certain objects of knowledge and when God knows them. Explain how a free choice can exist and be known before the agent exists and makes the choice?! You must assume determinism or simple foreknowledge without being able to explain a mechanism or defuse the problems associated with this.

 

[Letsargue]

That ^



Plus that ^

Nullifies God's omniscience. I see you present this same thing over and over again. Who do you think you're fooling? You're the one with your added crap that nullifies God's Omniscience.

Matthew 7:23 KJV ---/-- God said to ~one or two~ that He ((( “Never” ))) knew them!!! – About how many can you say that God has (( “Never” )) known or even knew, - “From ( whence ) ye are”; - how many??? – ( “ALL” the lost ), -- and that takes up almost everyone; - for “Wide is that road and ((( Many” ))) God said. - I think God said that He (( “Never” )) knew them, - and ( Never ) has to do with ((( Your ))) (( Time )), - whatever you think that is. -- God is ( “Never” Knowing ) any of the Lost. – Are the Lost with, or without God in this silly Time thing?? --- Nothing has anything to do with whether God is in time or not. That’s a silly concept anyhow!!

Paul – 080312

 

[chatmaggot]

You're a thief.

Did he still something of yours?

sky, do you believe that this verse is true?

Jeremiah 19:5

(they have also built the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings to Baal, which I did not command or speak, nor did it come into My mind),

Do you believe that mankind can do things that God did not plan, nor want, nor desire, nor command, nor preordain, nor predestine, etc... to happen?

If not, what does the verse I quoted mean to you?