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Proof from the Bible that God is In Time

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  • Originally posted by god rulz View Post
    Good grief, Charlie Brown. I fully affirm that God is omniscient and eternal, but would be wrong to say that He is timeless (since Scripture and logic preclude this Platonic idea): J.R. Lucas 'A treatise on time and space'
    Time is more fundamental than space...Some theologians say that God is outside time, but it cannot be true of any personal God that he is timeless, for a personal God is conscious, and time is a concomitant of consciousness. Time is not only the concomitant of consciousness, but the process of actualization and the dimension of change...." (p.3).


    rulz: a personal being, including God, must think, act, feel with succession, duration, sequence (i.e. time). The burden of proof is on you considering every page of Scripture and the life of God-Man Jesus proves this. As well, God is triune, so His reality would be the same before creation.
    Here we go again! You are a piece of your own work.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by sky. View Post
      The Word of God declares that God came first. Before anything!

      God is the same. Now and forever.

      Hebrews 13:8

      8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
      You have just denied the incarnation and proof texted out of context. This is about constancy of character, not timelessness, not absolute immutability in every sense. A God that cannot change in some ways (cf. clock that would be right only 2x/day if it did not change) is not personal, but a rock.

      You are buying into refuted Platonic ideas on perfection. Grow up.
      Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

      They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
      I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

      Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

      "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

      The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by god rulz View Post
        You have just denied the incarnation and proof texted out of context. This is about constancy of character, not timelessness, not absolute immutability in every sense. A God that cannot change in some ways (cf. clock that would be right only 2x/day if it did not change) is not personal, but a rock.

        You are buying into refuted Platonic ideas on perfection. Grow up.
        At least God has used you to use the prefix "con" in the majority of all of your understanding of your posts.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by sky. View Post
          At least God has used you to use the prefix "con" in the majority of all of your understanding of your posts.
          What is your biggest problem? Poor potty training?
          Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

          They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
          I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

          Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

          "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

          The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
            He is not subject to the things He creates.He knows all time, even the beginning and end of it.
            Isaiah 46:10
            10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
            And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
            Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
            And I will do all My pleasure,



            Isaiah 46:11

            11 Calling a bird of prey from the east,
            The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
            Indeed I have spoken it;
            I will also bring it to pass.
            I have purposed it;
            I will also do it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by godrulz View Post
              What is your biggest problem? Poor potty training?
              It does you no good to attack me. Address the Bible.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by sky. View Post
                Isaiah 46:10
                10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
                And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
                Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
                And I will do all My pleasure,



                Isaiah 46:11

                11 Calling a bird of prey from the east,
                The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
                Indeed I have spoken it;
                I will also bring it to pass.
                I have purposed it;
                I will also do it.
                These verses are clear that it is His ability to bring to pass that is the issue, not prescience/FK.

                I can tell you that in one hour I will drink milk. This is not foreknowledge, but intention that I bring to pass. I am not seeing me drink milk in an hour to declare this. I declare it, then bring it to pass. This is what God is saying, but you are wrongly importing your flawed ideas into the text and extrapolating it to all vs some cases.

                Unless you deny free will, you should be agreeing with me.
                Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by sky. View Post
                  It does you no good to attack me. Address the Bible.
                  I cannot reason with the unreasonable and you are not proving your point...you reject light, so I might as well rib you.
                  Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                  They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                  I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                  Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                  "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                  The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                    I cannot reason with the unreasonable and you are not proving your point...you reject light, so I might as well rib you.
                    Psalm 119:105
                    105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
                    And a light to my path.

                    -----------------

                    You aren't the light. That's what I'm saying.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by god rulz View Post
                      These verses are clear that it is His ability to bring to pass that is the issue, not prescience/FK.

                      I can tell you that in one hour I will drink milk. This is not foreknowledge, but intention that I bring to pass. I am not seeing me drink milk in an hour to declare this. I declare it, then bring it to pass. This is what God is saying, but you are wrongly importing your flawed ideas into the text and extrapolating it to all vs some cases.

                      Unless you deny free will, you should be agreeing with me.
                      You may be getting one over on yourself but that's about it.

                      Hebrews 4:12

                      12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by sky. View Post
                        Psalm 119:105
                        105 Your word is a lamp to my feet
                        And a light to my path.

                        -----------------

                        You aren't the light. That's what I'm saying.
                        Tell me something I don't know. This does not mean that we should not have biblical convictions about the One who is the Truth, Light, Life, Way.
                        Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)

                        They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
                        I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")

                        Rev. 1:17, 18; Jer. 9:23, 24

                        "No Compromise!" (Keith Green)

                        The Pledge: He died for me; I'll live for Him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                          Your answer is nonsense. You simply believe that God isn't great enough to know everything before it happens... it might seem impossible to you, but the impossible is simple to God. God knew the end from the beginning, whether your 'logical' mind can understand His Greatness or not.
                          We never said God isn't big enough, we said the future doesn't exist. It's not God that's limited, it's time.

                          Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                          I disagree, obviously.
                          Then show me how they say what you claim.

                          I believe that God is so great that He knows the end of EVERYTHING before time began.
                          And the Scripture upon which you base this?

                          What's the problem?

                          Because Adam named them. God knowing what a man will do doesn't preclude his freedom to do so.


                          Did you even read the question? God brought the animals before Adam to see what Adam would name them. This implies God did not know what Adam would name them and wanted to find out.

                          Sorry, but I can't prove a negative.
                          Coward.

                          How does that take away our freedom? We make choices, but God already knows what we will choose. He knows, but He doesn't reveal what He knows, unless it would benefit men to know.
                          Answer the question, Ken. Can you choose differently than what God knows you will choose?

                          Originally posted by sky. View Post
                          God INCLUDES us in His plan. What do you think God was busy making sure the clouds stayed in the sky so He gave the reins to Adam for a minute?
                          I never said He didn't include us. What of it?

                          Job 37:16

                          16 Do you know how the clouds are balanced,
                          Those wondrous works of Him who is perfect in knowledge?

                          Job 36:4
                          4 For truly my words are not false;
                          One who is perfect in knowledge is with you.

                          Psalms 147:5
                          5 Great is our Lord, and mighty in power;
                          His understanding is infinite.

                          1 John 3:20

                          20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
                          Do you believe God knows things that don't exist? Does God know the number of hairs on each individual unicorn? Does He know how many eggs the Easter Bunny is going to lay next year?

                          Originally posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
                          The Hebrew does NOT say, "before they spring forth I tell you of them." It says, that they "are sprouting and I tell you of them."

                          The translation you offer is just another example of how translators are influenced by Platonic Presupposition.
                          You're OV? Cool.

                          Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                          If God were subject to time, it would be His god.
                          Time is subject to God because it is an attribute of His existence, not one of His creations.

                          Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                          He is not subject to the things He creates.He knows all time, even the beginning and end of it.
                          Do you have Scripture for either of these statements? Where does the Bible say God created time? And where does it say He knows all time to the end all the way from the beginning?
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post

                            Do you believe God knows things that don't exist? Does God know the number of hairs on each individual unicorn? Does He know how many eggs the Easter Bunny is going to lay next year?
                            It wouldn't surprise me if open theism has taught you all about unicorns and easter bunnies. I notice none of you address the Scriptures that are given to you. Perhaps you all treat the Bible like a comic book.

                            -----------------------------------

                            Isaiah 40:12-14

                            12 Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand,

                            Measured heaven with a span

                            And calculated the dust of the earth in a measure?

                            Weighed the mountains in scales

                            And the hills in a balance?

                            13 Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord,

                            Or as His counselor has taught Him?

                            14 With whom did He take counsel, and who instructed Him,

                            And taught Him in the path of justice?

                            Who taught Him knowledge,

                            And showed Him the way of understanding?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                              If God were subject to time, it would be His god.
                              Originally posted by godrulz View Post
                              This is illogical. You have also stooped to the Calvinistic argument that if we reject their wrong view of hyper-sovereignty that this is tantamount to having a false, non-existent God (despite affirming the same triune truths about Him?!).

                              You are out of your league on this one and should go back to Sesame Street vs Theology discussions.

                              How dare you say I have a non-existent, false god over debatable issues that are not denials of omniscience, etc. Endless time is as eternal as timelessness (whatever that means).
                              I don't buy Calvinism nor do I see any sense in your answer to God being subservient to time in your view of Him. If He were limited by time, it would be His god. It isn't.
                              "That man of sin must first be revealed." -- Jesus

                              If you haven't tried: you've already failed. -- Aimiel

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Aimiel View Post
                                If He were limited by time, it would be His god. It isn't.
                                You continue to make this claim. Why do you think that if God experiences events in a sequential order then He would then no longer be God?

                                When you make the statement "...limited by time..." you seem to be making a vague statement that can be interpreted in several ways.

                                Is God limited by time in that He does not have a past? If God has a past, then God experiences time as we do. If the past exists to God in the same sense that our present exists to God, then is God right now experiencing the worldwide flood?

                                If the flood is a past event to God, then God isn't "outside of time" for if He were not subject to time or outside of time or existing in an eternal now, then all events that happen would appear to God in the same manner. Me typing on this computer would be no different than Balaam being scolded by his donkey in Gods view.
                                fidelis usque ad mortem

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