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Creation Science Rules

This is a new section being rolled out to attract people interested in exploring the origins of the universe and the earth from a biblical perspective.
Debate is encouraged and opposing viewpoints are welcome to post but certain rules must be followed.
1. No abusive tagging - if abusive tags are found - they will be deleted and disabled by the Admin team
2. No calling the biblical accounts a fable - fairy tale ect. This is a Christian site, so members that participate here must be respectful in their disagreement.
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Young Earth or Old?

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  • 6days
    replied
    Originally posted by Apple7
    You accept the lexical definitions for yom....but deny and ignore the lexical definitions for bara and asah?
    No I did not provide lexical definitions for 'Yom'. I did say that the word has various meanings in Scripture which is always determined by context.

    Likewise we don't need you selecting obscure definitions from a lexicon for the words 'create' and 'made'. (Bara and Asah). We can simply look in God's Word to see how the words are often used interchangeably. For example
    God made the Sun.... God created the Sun
    Psalm 148:5 / Genesis 1:16
    God made the Stars... God created the Stars
    Gen. 1:16 / Isaiah 40:26

    What is the difference between god making and God creating the Stars? Nothing! You are attempting to impose an artificial distinction between two words to fit your belief system rather than accept how they are used in Scripture.
    More...
    God Bara the heavens and earth Gen. 2:4
    God Asah the heavens and the Earth Gen. 2:4

    God Bara man Gen. 2:4
    God Asah man Gen. 3:5

    Also interesting and contrary to your definitions, Genesis 5:2 tells us that God created the first humans. You seem to have the idea, that word can only mean making something out of nothing. We know male was made out of the dust of the ground and Eve was created from Adam's rib. (So it would seem according to your beliefs that Genesis 5:2 should use the word made instead of created?). There are many more examples how the words 'create' and 'made'are used interchangeably in Scripture, and sometimes within the same verse.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apple7
    replied
    Originally posted by 6days View Post
    Apple..... Do you know what they say about a bag of hammers?

    Do you have trouble with easy to understand literature... or only the Bible?

    Did you know sometimes words have more than one meaning?

    For example.... Did you know that the word 'day' (and also YOM in Hebrew) have a variety of meanings always determined by context?

    Here is an easy test for you...
    In my fathers day, it took 3 days of fishing during the day only, to catch our limit?
    Ok... so the word DAY is used 3 times with 3 meanings in one sentence. If you can figure that out... then go back to Gen.2:4 and use the same logic. It may hurt, because it contradicts your beliefs. BTW... There are more than 3 meanings to the word day in the OT... Its ALWAYS easy to understand with context

    So...

    You accept the lexical definitions for yom....but deny and ignore the lexical definitions for bara and asah?

    Leave a comment:


  • Idolater
    replied
    Originally posted by 6days View Post
    Correct...(sort of). Jesus was not referring to day 6 as the beginning. He was referring to "the creation" which was a 6 day event in Genesis 1.
    Did we put this OP /thread to bed yet 6days? It's young, right? The earth? It's young. Nobody has any impenetrable argument to the contrary, neither 'scientific' or logical /scriptural. The earth is young, it's young. It just is, and it is because of the Resurrection of Christ, because that means God's real, and if God's real, there's nothing stopping God from creating just the way it reads in Genesis 1-3, and I personally don't care whether it can be interpreted in metaphorical ways because, the text isn't demanding or even requesting that we do that. It's set out as an event over six days, and I don't have any reason to believe otherwise.

    And I think we both agree that this is not a salvific /salvation issue, and we won't break communion with anybody for believing in evolution and the 'big bang' and other things that we do not believe. You have the right to believe whatever cosmology suits your theology, and your fancy, and so long as you reciprocally respect me, it's not a divisive matter and never will be.

    Leave a comment:


  • 6days
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    If you are right then the absolute beginning was not day six because five days preceded the sixth day.
    Correct...(sort of). Jesus was not referring to day 6 as the beginning. He was referring to "the creation" which was a 6 day event in Genesis 1.

    Leave a comment:


  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    If you are right then the absolute beginning was not day six because five days preceded the sixth day.
    Jesus Himself didn't say "at the absolute beginning."

    So quit moving the goalposts.
    Originally posted by JudgeRightly View Post
    The only one here saying "absolute" beginning is you, Jerry.

    Leave a comment:


  • JudgeRightly
    replied
    Originally posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
    If you are right then the absolute beginning was not day six because five days preceded the sixth day.
    The only one here saying "absolute" beginning is you, Jerry.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jerry Shugart
    replied
    Originally posted by 6days View Post
    As mentioned already the word beginning in Greek is 'arche' signifying an absolute beginning along with the word 'ktiseos' indicating the sum total of all creation.
    If you are right then the absolute beginning was not day six because five days preceded the sixth day.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apple7
    replied
    Originally posted by wheelchair View Post
    I agree with you that the earth is old.
    That is the only thing that we can agree upon.

    How you managed to get that correct, and everything else so very wrong, is on you...

    Leave a comment:


  • 6days
    replied
    Originally posted by Apple7
    These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created in the day that Yahweh God was making earth and heavens. Gen 2.4 This one passage, which includes both ‘asah’ and ‘bara’, makes it clear that the two verbs are NOT interchangeable, as ALL previous SIX days of creation are now referred to as ONE DAY.
    Apple..... Do you know what they say about a bag of hammers?

    Do you have trouble with easy to understand literature... or only the Bible?

    Did you know sometimes words have more than one meaning?

    For example.... Did you know that the word 'day' (and also YOM in Hebrew) have a variety of meanings always determined by context?

    Here is an easy test for you...
    In my fathers day, it took 3 days of fishing during the day only, to catch our limit?
    Ok... so the word DAY is used 3 times with 3 meanings in one sentence. If you can figure that out... then go back to Gen.2:4 and use the same logic. It may hurt, because it contradicts your beliefs. BTW... There are more than 3 meanings to the word day in the OT... Its ALWAYS easy to understand with context

    Leave a comment:


  • 6days
    replied
    Originally posted by chair View Post
    I agree with you that the earth is old. I am merely pointing out that you need to deal more seriously with the objection 6 days raised to your analysis of the words. For some reason you get very defensive and ugly when I point that out.
    You forgot 'illogical'.

    Leave a comment:


  • chair
    replied
    Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
    Then we come to this passage, which provides us with a one-stop-shop with which to put an end to the ‘YEC literalist 24hr day theory’…

    These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created in the day that Yahweh God was making earth and heavens. Gen 2.4

    This one passage, which includes both ‘asah’ and ‘bara’, makes it clear that the two verbs are NOT interchangeable, as ALL previous SIX days of creation are now referred to as ONE DAY.

    Further, this ONE DAY contains GENERATIONS, and, as ALL 38 occurrences of the term used outside of Gen 2.4 indicate, large passages of time expired as used in the genealogical listings of the early patriarchs.


    Now...

    Go troll another thread.

    You bring nothing to the table except your hatred...



    I agree with you that the earth is old. I am merely pointing out that you need to deal more seriously with the objection 6 days raised to your analysis of the words. For some reason you get very defensive and ugly when I point that out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Apple7
    replied
    Originally posted by chair View Post

    Now pull out your lexicons, your translations, your Hebrew Bible, and actually address the question. These two verses use the terms interchangeably. That creates a difficulty for your theses.

    Then we come to this passage, which provides us with a one-stop-shop with which to put an end to the ‘YEC literalist 24hr day theory’…

    These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created in the day that Yahweh God was making earth and heavens. Gen 2.4

    This one passage, which includes both ‘asah’ and ‘bara’, makes it clear that the two verbs are NOT interchangeable, as ALL previous SIX days of creation are now referred to as ONE DAY.

    Further, this ONE DAY contains GENERATIONS, and, as ALL 38 occurrences of the term used outside of Gen 2.4 indicate, large passages of time expired as used in the genealogical listings of the early patriarchs.


    Now...

    Go troll another thread.

    You bring nothing to the table except your hatred...



    Leave a comment:


  • chair
    replied
    Apple, to remind you, these are the verses in question.
    Originally posted by 6days View Post
    Apple..... That is a modern opinion compromising scripture...attempting to add deep time into God's Word. Barah and Asah are used interchangeably throughout Scripture. For example.. Genesis 1:1 God 'bara' the heavens and the earth. In Nehemiah 9:6 God 'asah' the heavens and earth.
    So far you have avoided dealing with these verses.
    You've given us "Scripture uses different terms to relate different events." - but without any explanation or proof that this solves your difficulty with the verses.
    You've given us "Bring forth your verifiable lexicography that claims that it is a 'modern opinion'."- once again avoiding the main question, and vaguely claiming that "lexicography" supports your view.
    You've also managed to:
    Catch an error I made (when I identified the book the verse came from incorrectly. thank you for the kind correction).
    Tried to insult me in a rather bigoted manner.
    Focused on a typo (a missed letter!), rather than actually deal with the texts at hand.

    Now pull out your lexicons, your translations, your Hebrew Bible, and actually address the question. These two verses use the terms interchangeably. That creates a difficulty for your theses.

    Leave a comment:


  • 6days
    replied
    Originally posted by Apple7 View Post
    ….. Adam was created once in Gen 1.26, and then three times again in Gen 1.27.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stripe
    replied
    Originally posted by chair View Post
    So you are reduced to pointing out typos rather than provide a proper response. Sad.
    "Providing."

    Leave a comment:

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