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  • Originally posted by lightninboy
    Jerry Shugart won. Jeremy contradicted himself when he said that works were not required for salvation when he was arguing that works were required for salvation.
    Me thinks you have little comprehension skills.
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    • Jerry Shugart Won.

      All right, then. Jerry Shugart won because he was on the right side of the debate. Do you want to have Battle Royale VIII all over again?

      Comment


      • works

        Originally posted by Freak
        well, Turbo, what do you believe about this subject? Do you believe, at one point, works were necessary for salvation?

        Works are still necessary for salvation

        Comment


        • Pastor Kavorkian

          Quote-- Really? Were the Jews the authors of the Bible? Yes. ---Were the Jews the authors of the Old Testament? Yes! Do we find a description in the Old Testament of eternal punishment? YES!
          Psalm 140:10
          10 Let burning coals fall upon them; Let them be cast into the fire, Into deep pits, that they rise not up again.


          I find it interesting that pastor Kavorkian uses psalms 140:10 actually it's 140:11 ( a book of prayers ) as proof of eternal punishment.....Whats up with this????



          Now what it really says
          May he rain burning coals upon them; may he cast them into the depths never to rise.
          this is nothing more than a prayer.

          stop all the smoke and mirrors already

          Comment


          • Originally posted by solarb
            Works are still necessary for salvation
            I was about to ask why you have such a wrong view about works and then I noticed you are a Catholic. Catholics have never gotten the whole concept of works correct. Why? Because that Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was not enough to forgive their sins and that Jesus's resurection was not enough to redeam them to everlasting life with the Father.

            They believe that what was begun in the spirit (accepting Jesus as their savior) must be completed in the flesh (legealism and works).

            Its kind of sad and is ultimatly why I'm not a Catholic anymore.
            Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)

            But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

            What are my fruits today?

            Cityboy With Horses A blog about what happens when you say, "I Promise"

            "Moral standards" are a lot like lighthouses: they exist to help us stay on course as we sail through life. But we have to steer BY them, but not directly AT them. Lest we end up marooned on the shoals of perpetual self-righteousness.

            Comment


            • Great thread.

              Comment


              • I am no longer catholic nor christian. I no longer believe Christ is god. I'm more interested in what the jews were supposed to teach us.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by solarb View Post
                  I am no longer catholic nor christian. I no longer believe Christ is god. I'm more interested in what the jews were supposed to teach us.
                  Whoa... that was random.
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                  TOL Newbies CLICK HERE or....upgrade your TOL today!

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                  • Originally posted by solarb View Post
                    I am no longer catholic nor christian. I no longer believe Christ is god. I'm more interested in what the jews were supposed to teach us.
                    So when you get a rash/scab/skin irritation...do you show yourself to a son of Aaron (a priest)?
                    fidelis usque ad mortem

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PureX View Post
                      Nothing was ever required for our salvation but to surrender ourselves to it.

                      Debate over. *smile*


                      OOOOPPPPSSSSS!!!!

                      Paul -- 052512
                      ---Gal. 4:16.
                      ---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by PureX View Post
                        Nothing was ever required for our salvation but to surrender ourselves to it.

                        Debate over. *smile*



                        The Scriptures don’t teach that, or anything like that anywhere in them.

                        When a person is lost, he is considered having no hope, and without God in the WORLD. >> Ephesians 2:12 KJV – “Having no hope, and without God in the world”. ------//-- A Lost person is totally carnal minded, and sees nothing of the Spirit of God. He is of the world of WORKS, and not of Faith. – Then the Gospel is preached to him. - IF he believes the Gospel, he will repent / sorrowful for his ways, and seek further, - “What can I do”!! – Then the “FIRST WORKS” TOWARD SALVATION; - obeying the Gospel that was taught him. To obey the Gospel, one must DO / “DO” the Gospel, “do the death, burial and the resurrection” of Jesus Christ. That is a WORK that is ordained for the lost to DO, to be added to the Body of Christ by CHRIST, where there is no more works that save one from his sins. The works of the Gospel are the only works that translates, or baptizes into the Kingdom of Christ. He is then called a “Christian”, a member of the Church / Body of Christ. – Romans 6:3-4 KJV - Know ye not, THAT SO MANY OF US as were baptized into Jesus Christ were BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH? 4- Therefore, WE ARE BURIED WITH HIM BY BAPTISM INTO DEATH: THAT LIKE AS CHRIST WAS RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD (( BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER )), EVEN SO WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE”. ---&--- Acts 2:38 KJV – “Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, AND BE BAPTIZED (( EVERY ONE OF YOU )) in the name of Jesus Christ (( FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS )), and YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT of the Holy Ghost”. -------//--- There is not another Word in all the Scriptures that contradicts with that. - One can only reject it, being the Word of God, and that is the crucifying of the Lord Jesus. That is how one CRUCIFIES THE LORD!! >> Galatians 3:1 KJV – “O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, THAT YE SHOULD NOT OBEY THE TRUTH, before whose eyes JESUS CHRIST HATH BEEN (( EVIDENTLY )) SET FORTH, CRUCIFIED AMONG YOU”? ------//-- The Galatians were not at the crucifixion of Christ, other than by the “WITNESS” of the GOSPEL OF CHRIST which places the Gentile, or lost person at the Crucifixion. THAT’S WHAT GOD IS SAYING. Deny it if you must!!

                        Paul – 052512
                        ---Gal. 4:16.
                        ---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by solarb View Post
                          I am no longer catholic nor christian. I no longer believe Christ is god. I'm more interested in what the jews were supposed to teach us.
                          Jesus is a Jew....and so are His Apostles.
                          Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
                          Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by steko View Post
                            Jesus is a Jew....and so are His Apostles.


                            Jesus and "ALL" His Apostles were “LEVITES”, not Jewish by blood. – They were however, Jews, because they lived in, and were CITIZENS of the nation of Judah, and Jerusalem. - I can’t understand how you all keep saying that Jesus was a JEW, referring that He was of the Tribe of Judah. - Jesus was of NO TRIBE, but what the Father spoke Him to be. Jesus’ Mother was of the Tribe of Levi, of the daughters of Aaron, not even of Moses.

                            Paul – 052712
                            Last edited by Letsargue; May 28th, 2012, 05:45 AM.
                            ---Gal. 4:16.
                            ---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Letsargue View Post
                              Jesus and "ALL" His Apostles were “LEVITES”, not Jewish by blood. – They were however, Jews, because they lived in, and were CITIZENS of the nation of Judah, and Jerusalem. - I can’t understand how you all keep saying that Jesus was a JEW, referring that He was of the Tribe of Judah. - Jesus was of NO TRIBE, but what the Father spoke Him to be. Jesus’ Mother was of the Tribe of Levi, of the daughters of Aaron, not even of Moses.

                              Paul – 052712

                              Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD[YHVH], that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
                              Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he[the Branch] shall be called, THE LORD[YHVH] OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Letsargue View Post
                                Jesus and "ALL" His Apostles were “LEVITES”, not Jewish by blood. – They were however, Jews, because they lived in, and were CITIZENS of the nation of Judah, and Jerusalem. - I can’t understand how you all keep saying that Jesus was a JEW, referring that He was of the Tribe of Judah. - Jesus was of NO TRIBE, but what the Father spoke Him to be. Jesus’ Mother was of the Tribe of Levi, of the daughters of Aaron, not even of Moses.

                                Paul – 052712
                                John 4:

                                21. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
                                22. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

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