Judge, Jury, Executioner, Jr. (TM), mystery's understudy as a god-player in the Kingdom of Self (Earl Jabay).
10 things I'm right about, whether you agree or not.
- Thread starter Mystery
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Judge, Jury, Executioner, Jr. (TM), mystery's understudy as a god-player in the Kingdom of Self (Earl Jabay).
Caledvwlch
New member
Typical me, jumping in eight or so pages too late, but if sin is no longer a struggle for the saved, then what is it? It seems to me that the very presence of temptation can be considered a struggle.
noguru
Well-known member
So how does one achieve proper thinking? And why would some choose to think improperly?
noguru
Well-known member
Apparently Lighthouse does not believe that his casual rendezvous with sin is a struggle. There is no struggle at all. He either sins or he doesn't. He has no remorse no matter what he does.
Caledvwlch
New member
I'm hip, man. That cat doesn't know any tunes.
Woops. I was just channeling Tommy Chong. I always thought that Christ's redemptive work gave one freedom from the penalty of sin, as opposed to sin itself. Now don't get me wrong, I love to sin, but L to the Hizzie seems to be getting bent out of shape over practically nothing.
Balder
New member
Mystery, I'm bumping this since I asked it three or four pages ago by now and I'm still hoping you'll get back to me on this...
Most see that justification deals with the penalty of sin, sanctification, the power of sin, and glorification, the presence of sin.
There is a sinless perfectionism heresy (various forms) that does not see the progressive, synergistic (God and man) nature of our growth subsequent to initial conversion.
Christians are free from sin and can have victory over sin, but this does not preclude us from lapses into sin or struggle with sin. We need to appropriate His power and grace, just as we do at initial conversion. God does not force Himself on us, or we would all be instantly mature and perfect from the first minute on (contradicts reality and Scripture). There is a positional and progressive nature, with ultimate victory taking place at His Coming or our leaving this earth at death. We do not need to sin, but if we do, there is full provision for past, present, and future sin.
The godless are given over to sin, are condemned by it, and are powerless to free themselves from its bondage. In light of the holiness of God, you should consider the remedy of man's greatest problem...sin and death and hell are only conquered by Christ and His work in us.
Caledvwlch
New member
That is much more like the concept I remember. I'm not sure if this "sinless perfectionism" idea is intriguing or just air-headed bloviation. Take that, Firefox! (didn't recognize the word "bloviation")
Perfectionism can lead to antinomianism (lawless). It is not explicit in Scripture nor does it resonate with the reality experienced by the average believer. There really is growth in the grace and knowledge of Christ, character, fruit, maturity, belief and practice, etc.
What was your faith background? Do you think you were ever a true believer? (I am not OSAS).
noguru
Well-known member
Santa Claus doesn't know any tunes?
Christs redemptive work does not mean that we should not feel remorse for sin. It simply means that we can find atonement for that remorse through Christ. But his sacrifice is not something we can carry around like a "get out of jail free" card.
This is one of the reason's I have always thought the Catholic tradition of pennace can be a needed excersize in humility. Although that can be abused as well, there are some that turn that into a formula. A formula for which they go through the motions, but do not embrace the meaning with their heart and soul.
Mystery
New member
godrulz ia a lying pig. He doesn't know ONE single thing about Jesus or the gospel.
Here is a repost explaining why Christians do not struggle with sin...
There is a big difference between, "not sinning", and being set free from sin.
Think of it this way...
You're working for Taco Hell and your employer comes to you everyday and tells you to scrub the toilet (Law). You try to do this for most of your life, but the manager keeps telling you how incompetent you are (falling short), and then one day a relative dies and leaves you his company where you are now CEO of a multi-national corporation. While sitting in your plush corner office, the phone rings and it is the manager of Taco Hell ordering you to scrub the toliet.
Do you go do it? No, because you no longer are under his authority. You have been set free from Taco Hell (the Law). You have a new life. Does this mean that you will never scrub toliets again? No, you will, but you are no longer accountable to Taco Hell if you don't. It is no longer wrong if you do not, but it is profitable to have a clean toilet.
I use this illustration to show you that not only have we been set free from the demands of the Law, but the Law can never hold us accountable for falling short (sinning). We are free from the Law. We are free from sin, and from it's penalty (death).
When we come to Christ by faith we are removed from that whole system of operation where we are told what to do, and we fail. We are under a whole new system of life and peace in Christ. Our old employer has no authority in our lives.
Are we sinless? Yes, not because we keep the toliet clean, we don't, but because there is nothing there demanding that we do. We are out outside of that system. Outside of it's domain.
I have often said that Paul did not struggle with sin, after he was regenerated, and that is true, he did not. It was not that Paul did not have issues with his behavior, but he was no longer under that system of sin and death, and he knew it. Sin was no longer an issue, but walking in faith. He was no longer under the domain of darkness, under condemnation, or death, but had been transferred to a whole new system of life in Christ! Paul says that ALL things are permissable, but not all things are profitable. He will not allow anything to be his master. Christ is his life.
Here is a repost explaining why Christians do not struggle with sin...
There is a big difference between, "not sinning", and being set free from sin.
Think of it this way...
You're working for Taco Hell and your employer comes to you everyday and tells you to scrub the toilet (Law). You try to do this for most of your life, but the manager keeps telling you how incompetent you are (falling short), and then one day a relative dies and leaves you his company where you are now CEO of a multi-national corporation. While sitting in your plush corner office, the phone rings and it is the manager of Taco Hell ordering you to scrub the toliet.
Do you go do it? No, because you no longer are under his authority. You have been set free from Taco Hell (the Law). You have a new life. Does this mean that you will never scrub toliets again? No, you will, but you are no longer accountable to Taco Hell if you don't. It is no longer wrong if you do not, but it is profitable to have a clean toilet.
I use this illustration to show you that not only have we been set free from the demands of the Law, but the Law can never hold us accountable for falling short (sinning). We are free from the Law. We are free from sin, and from it's penalty (death).
When we come to Christ by faith we are removed from that whole system of operation where we are told what to do, and we fail. We are under a whole new system of life and peace in Christ. Our old employer has no authority in our lives.
Are we sinless? Yes, not because we keep the toliet clean, we don't, but because there is nothing there demanding that we do. We are out outside of that system. Outside of it's domain.
I have often said that Paul did not struggle with sin, after he was regenerated, and that is true, he did not. It was not that Paul did not have issues with his behavior, but he was no longer under that system of sin and death, and he knew it. Sin was no longer an issue, but walking in faith. He was no longer under the domain of darkness, under condemnation, or death, but had been transferred to a whole new system of life in Christ! Paul says that ALL things are permissable, but not all things are profitable. He will not allow anything to be his master. Christ is his life.
noguru
Well-known member
Shut up. The guns a blazing entrance you make in your comments seems over dramatic and compensatory. And it demonstrates your own insecurity which you haphazzardly cloak in a tattered coat of bravado.
Caledvwlch
New member
Your post was stupid for more reasons than I will waste my time pointing out, as the intelligent reader will easily identify most of the reasons. But here's a question for you:
Why would God rescind the Law He personally handed down? If one is free from the Law, then what need is there for redemption if it was disobedience of the Law that originally got one booked on the next train to Damnationville?
noguru
Well-known member
So grace is like getting a promotion even though you were incompetent at the lower level of responsibility? :chuckle: It sounds a lot like the Peter Principle at work.
And boy that is one stupid manager. Which real life entity is represented by that guy?
So I take it you don't scrub toilets (follow the law) any more. Or have you somehow gotten better at it because you can hire someone else to do it?
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Mystery
New member
Since you are not one, and have no idea what I said, then you can just go to hell. I don't really care.
He didn't rescind the Law. Your incompetence to understand what I said, is quite clear. You are really a waste of time.
Because the Law revealed the very thing that brought death (sin), and the reason people are condemned is because they are dead.
Being free from the Law, does not mean that the Law no longer exists. It is just that those who have been removed from it, or no longer bound to it.
Why am I telling you? You don't give a crap. You are nothing but a lazy good for nothing piece of garbage.
Mystery
New member
You have no idea what grace is, you are too proud to receive it.
No, and those who do, are dead to God.
One should be careful lest one look like an antinomian. Unless Christians are free to murder, lie, cheat, steal, worship idols, hate parents, covet, etc., the unchanging Moral Law of God based on His character is still valid for us. The Law condemns sinners as lawless lawbreakers, but it is also a societal guide and has valid principles for the Christian subsequent to salvation by grace through faith.
I am not a lying pig. I pig out sometimes. I may be an ignorant pig, but I am being sincere (without wax= Latin) and am not misrepresenting what I believe to be true based on years of thoughtful study.
I am not a lying pig. I pig out sometimes. I may be an ignorant pig, but I am being sincere (without wax= Latin) and am not misrepresenting what I believe to be true based on years of thoughtful study.
Ask Mr. Religion
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A fellow named Wendell Miller once wrote about various forms of forgiveness for Sin by God that went something like this:
Initial Judicial Forgiveness
Time: at the moment of belief
Nature: conditioned on faith alone
Sins involved: all previous sins committed before justification
Result: eternal life
Initial Fellowship Forgiveness
Time: at the moment of belief
Nature: removal of estrangement
Sins involved: all previous sins committed before justification
Result: fellowship with God begun (1 John 1:7)
Repetitive Judicial Forgiveness
Time: at the moment a Christian sins
Means: Jesus' work as the believer's Advocate
Nature: immediate and unconditional
Sins involved: sins committed in a believer's life
Repetitive Fellowship Forgiveness
Time: when a Christian confesses his sin
Means: Jesus' ministry as the believer's High Priest
Nature: conditioned on confession
Result: fellowship with God restored (1 John 1:9)
I wonder how others view this approach?
Initial Judicial Forgiveness
Time: at the moment of belief
Nature: conditioned on faith alone
Sins involved: all previous sins committed before justification
Result: eternal life
Initial Fellowship Forgiveness
Time: at the moment of belief
Nature: removal of estrangement
Sins involved: all previous sins committed before justification
Result: fellowship with God begun (1 John 1:7)
Repetitive Judicial Forgiveness
Time: at the moment a Christian sins
Means: Jesus' work as the believer's Advocate
Nature: immediate and unconditional
Sins involved: sins committed in a believer's life
Repetitive Fellowship Forgiveness
Time: when a Christian confesses his sin
Means: Jesus' ministry as the believer's High Priest
Nature: conditioned on confession
Result: fellowship with God restored (1 John 1:9)
I wonder how others view this approach?
noguru
Well-known member
You call me a phoney piece of feces in the comment of a neg rep and yet have the audacity to say I am too proud to receive grace. Wow! I guess you and I differ on what it means to be too proud to receive grace. :think: I suspect that you are certain of your acceptance of grace, however. Is that correct?
I disagree with you. I think you use your claim of grace as a "get out jail free card". I do not think you are sincere about repentance nor the required humility. This is evident given the content of your posts.
Here is what you posted in the comment of the neg rep.
Why do you resort to this strategy sometimes when someone disagrees with you? Is it because you have no reasonable response?
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noguru
Well-known member
But in another thread you claimed that you were so holy when at a Hotel with your wife.