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  • Mystery.

    Perhaps I phrased it a bit too quickly, for you.

    OSAS forces people to say enormously stupid things like: "if someone never loved God, they were never saved." So you can live your whole life and with your last breath have perfect confidence that you will be saved, simply because you did an altar call one day in your youth?

    Well....how do you know with "certainty" that you...or anyone...even someone like Paul...loved God? And then circle back and say ...'see they must not have loved God, so they weren't saved in the first place'.

    So I self-detect "love" during an altar call...and it's all a done deal?
    So with OSAS, you don't have to do obey Jesus's two great commandants, and according to OSAS and many Protestants today....you can ignore all the 10 commandmants ("old law"..tsk tsk)...they're really nothing more than "good ideas" to follow because it creates harmany while on earth.

    All of the above follows from OSAS.

    And you call me a moron? OSAS forces some crazy "hand waving" to explain so much of the Bible...that it essentially fractures the Bible. It's not very elegant, after OSAS.

    Far less contorted to hold that "saving" is life long. And that we need to do what Jesus asked to do...our whole life long. One long.....sometimes stumbling, sometimes struggling, always hoping (read Paul's use of hope..his use of this word doesn't make any sense if OSAS were true), sometimes even failing..but always persevering....YES to God.

    Comment


    • BillH... You do not know what salvation is. When you do, then you can discuss it. Until then, you are just ignorant, and a waste of time.

      Comment


      • Mystery, yYou not only don't understand what true salvation is (for you, salvation is a silly easy altar call), you incredibly don't understand nor exhibit what it means to be a Christian in everyday life.

        Your OSAS view fractures the message of the Gospel into a thousand separate quotes to be piecemealed and shoe horned in as needed to prove your personal and circular preconceptions.

        Viewing salvation as a life long event instead integrates and keeps all things whole.

        Colossians 1: 12 - 20 "and in him all things hold together". OSAS splinters so much of the Gospel, as these forums are so evidently doing.

        How far are most Protestants from: Romans 15: 5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, 6so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

        More over, it's clear in the tenor of your messages throughout these forums...you have no charity in you...mainly just crotchety invective.

        May you find real peace and real salvation during your life.

        Comment


        • BillH, when is someone saved?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mystery View Post
            BillH... You do not know what salvation is. When you do, then you can discuss it. Until then, you are just ignorant, and a waste of time.
            He's apparently another member of the huge "Christian religion" which is powerless to save anyone. It's probably Satan's biggest tool to blind people
            from the simplicity of the gospel.
            Originally posted by Interplanner
            They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
            Originally posted by Interplanner
            You're too literal to get it.
            Originally posted by Interplanner
            The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

            Comment


            • Mystery,

              Salvation begins when you turn to Jesus..and completes when you meet Jesus face to face.

              If you are familiar with the Greek view of "happiness"....so distant from today's understanding of that word, real salvation...as with real happiness is a life long state/pursuit.

              Today we've cheapened salvation into a classic "instant on" Americanized notion. I need it, I got it, and oh by the way...I can't lose it either. So utterly modern...so utterly wrong. So cheap. And as I point out it disintegrates the whole message of the Bible.

              The Greeks held that happiness had a moral dimension to it...a whole life well lived...not an instantaneous state. You could die having lived a Happy life. That was the idea.

              And for the same reason today....so many American's miscontrue "Happiness" as an instantaneous state....a belly full of chow. They latch on and abuse the classical notion of Happiness...and they misconstrue "pursuit of happiness" into an emotional state...rather than a long running moral state/condition.

              Given that the early disciples and the early Church were far more familiar and knowledgable about such notions of moral happiness and other pivotal words such as salvation....do you really think the early Church shared your understanding of "instant on, altar call" salvation?

              It wasn't until more than 1500 years later did some people start piecemealing apart God's word.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BillH View Post
                Mystery,

                Salvation begins when you turn to Jesus..and completes when you meet Jesus face to face.
                That's not what I asked, you moron.

                If you cannot answer simple questions, then just take a hike off this thread.

                I have already caught you in a HUGE contradiction (which you have not retracted).

                Now, answer the question or get lost.

                When is someone SAVED? (PAST TENSE)

                Comment


                • Dear Impatient and Mysterious Altar Caller,

                  I know you need to have things instantly in tight little boxes...but I did answer your question, I told you when the process begins and when it ends (when your life ends here).

                  Just as Jesus's life giving act wasn't complete until he died, His life saving act for us isn't over til we die. Don't put Jesus's act into some finite time frozen form. God doesn't share our limits of space and time. His mercy endures forever.

                  Proof for a more powerful, more elegant, more beautiful undertanding of Salvation...than a silly non-biblical altar call?

                  Read:

                  Phil 2:12 work out your salvation with fear and trembling

                  1 Peter 1:9 as you attain the goal of your faith, salvation.

                  Mt 10:22 he who endures to the end will be saved

                  Mt 23:13 he who perseveres to the end will be saved

                  Mk 8:35 who loses his life for my sake will save it

                  Acts 15:11 we shall be saved through the grace of Jesus

                  Romans 5:9-10 insce we are justified, we shall be saved.

                  Romans: 13:11 salvation is nearer now than first believed.

                  1 Cor 3:15 he will be saved, but only as through fire

                  1 Cor 5:5 hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

                  Hebrews 9:28 Jesus will appear second time, to bring salvation.
                  Last edited by BillH; November 25th, 2007, 11:47 AM. Reason: typos

                  Comment


                  • Is your answer that no one is "SAVED" until they die?

                    Is it possible after someone is dead that they can be UN-SAVED?

                    YES or NO answers. I will ignore the rest.

                    Comment


                    • Mystery,

                      Cross Examine Him. and feel free to ignore me..and the Bible verses that are counter to your OSAS/altar calling belief......you may uncharitably demand the need for yes and no answers....so feel free to take these things up with the Lord in prayer. Hint...bring some humility with you when you do that.

                      I am just a human, I look at all the Bible, and have to conclude based on all the verses that I have read and studied that my salvation will culminate when I die. And that OSAS is a false belief, relatively new in the life of the Christian Church.

                      I don't know about others and what's in their hearts. Nor is this part of my job on earth.

                      God didn't put me here to know all things with lawyer-like certainty...but instead to love Him, to give Him Glory, to say yes to Him everyday, and to show others how to love Him, by the way I love others. I fail more often than not. Do you?

                      Or has OSAS made all these things not legally necessary?

                      Comment


                      • Bill.. you can't even answer a simple question. You have forfeited this debate, and have been declared a loser.

                        Now, get your worthless, Christ hating, pathetic life off this thread.

                        Comment


                        • I am challenging you on your very first belief. and you haven't responded to a single Bible verse I've laid down which singularly and colletively counter your first belief.

                          Now go back to them and reconcile them with your belief...I'll make it easy..just use the ones I dropped in today..one or two postings before.

                          If you put these beliefs down...then you need to defend them. Get busy.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BillH View Post
                            I am challenging you on your very first belief. and you haven't responded to a single Bible verse I've laid down which singularly and colletively counter your first belief.

                            Now go back to them and reconcile them with your belief...I'll make it easy..just use the ones I dropped in today..one or two postings before.

                            If you put these beliefs down...then you need to defend them. Get busy.
                            Look, you idiot. You don't get to decide how this plays out. If you want answers, you have to respond to my questions. I answered your questions, by PROVING that you contradicted yourself. Shall I post your contradictions again?

                            You are a false teacher, and biblically inept.

                            Answer my question, or go away.

                            Is your answer that no one is "SAVED" until they die?

                            Is it possible after someone is dead that they can be UN-SAVED?

                            YES or NO answers. ONLY.

                            Comment


                            • Mystery, Nice try.....but I haven't contradicted myself (yet)...I just haven't felt compelled to fit the Words of God into your little minded yes|no question. Post the contradiction and we'll let others here decide.

                              By the way, I don't want your answers...I couldn't care less about your answers...I want to see how you defend your principal beliefs in the face of Scripture....you seem way long on un-Christian like invective and hot opinion...and short of dispassionate substantiation...for a Bible-believing person.

                              But first...here's how Jesus answered the question.

                              From Luke:

                              25On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
                              26"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"

                              27He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'[c]; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[d]"

                              28"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."

                              doesn't sound like an Altar call to me?

                              Comment


                              • When did Mystery ever say that we are saved by an "altar call"?
                                I seriously doubt that he did...
                                Originally posted by Interplanner
                                They can't compete with a real writer and grammar scholar
                                Originally posted by Interplanner
                                You're too literal to get it.
                                Originally posted by Interplanner
                                The New Covenant preceded the Old Covenant.

                                Comment

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