toldailytopic "Evolutionary theory isn't about the origin of life"

7djengo7

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It's like having a front row seat at a circus where you hope the clowns might just be amusing for once...

Otherwise, erm, no.

Arthur Brain, why do you call evolution "scientific", despite your admission that evolution causes absolutely nothing?

Since evolution, as you admit, is the cause of absolutely nothing, absolutely nothing is an effect of evolution. Isn't science supposed to be about causes and their effects, effects and their causes, Arthur Brain? But, as you admit, evolution is no cause, and has no effect(s). So, you've brilliantly shown us that evolution and science have nothing to do with one another. Thank you, Professor Arthur Brain!:up::up:
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
A genetic fallacy.

Try again.

Why? a creationist website isn't going to give any validity to an old universe/old earth/evolution and such regardless is it? If there's actual evidence against the above then it needs to come from accredited and corroborated science itself, just as how these theories have been established to start with. If there is such evidence then I'm open to it.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Arthur Brain, why do you call evolution "scientific", despite your admission that evolution causes absolutely nothing?

Since evolution, as you admit, is the cause of absolutely nothing, absolutely nothing is an effect of evolution. Isn't science supposed to be about causes and their effects, effects and their causes, Arthur Brain? But, as you admit, evolution is no cause, and has no effect(s). So, you've brilliantly shown us that evolution and science have nothing to do with one another. Thank you, Professor Arthur Brain!:up::up:

Because it is scientific. Your personal hangups with anything that doesn't correspond with your beliefs isn't mine or sciences problem. It's just yours.
 

7djengo7

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Because it is scientific. Your personal hangups with anything that doesn't correspond with your beliefs isn't mine or sciences problem. It's just yours.

So, according to you, Arthur Brain, for something to be scientific, it needs to explain absolutely nothing. According to you, Arthur Brain, that is why you call evolution "scientific": because evolution causes absolutely nothing. That's a bizarre motivation for you to call something "scientific", is it not? And yet, you do.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
So, according to you, to be scientific, something needs to explain absolutely nothing. According to you, that is why you call evolution "scientific": because evolution causes absolutely nothing.

The theory of evolution explains a lot of things regarding how life evolved (surprisingly). What it doesn't explain is how life itself originated, as per your silly OP and ignorance of the actual theory itself.

Otherwise, your presumptions of what I consider to be scientific are...well...kinda funny in a bemusing fashion.
 

JudgeRightly

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A creationist website is hardly proof of anything Lon. If there's flaws in the methods used to establish the age of the universe then there needs to be something that holds up to scrutiny.

A genetic fallacy.

Try again.

Why? a creationist website isn't going to give any validity to an old universe/old earth/evolution and such regardless is it? If there's actual evidence against the above then it needs to come from accredited and corroborated science itself, just as how these theories have been established to start with. If there is such evidence then I'm open to it.

Your dismissal of claims that go against your position simply because it's "A creationist website" is a genetic fallacy.

You don't get to decide whether a claim is invalid based on the source.

Also, the best way to test whether one's position is valid or not is to hold it up to scrutiny from an opponent's viewpoint. Otherwise you risk an echo chamber.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
Your dismissal of claims that go against your position simply because it's "A creationist website" is a genetic fallacy.

You don't get to decide whether a claim is invalid based on the source.

Also, the best way to test whether one's position is valid or not is to hold it up to scrutiny from an opponent's viewpoint. Otherwise you risk an echo chamber.

So far there's been nothing to even consider on any meaningful level. If there's verifiable evidence that refutes the established age of the universe, earth and evolution then I'm more than willing to view it and consider it as well. As of yet I've seen nothing credible that disputes current scientific understanding and in light of how none of the above necessarily run contrary to having faith outside of dogmatic religionist beliefs I'm rather cynical that any such credible evidence will come to light. I'd still be open to it if it comes along though.
 

Arthur Brain

Well-known member
I've explained the problem many times. That you cannot understand science is your problem.

No, you haven't. You've asserted a whole load of stuff but you haven't actually gotten around to debunking anything. If this is your idea of "destroying" scientific methods or that which you don't agree with in terms of "method" then colour me unimpressed.
 

chair

Well-known member
So, Fritz the housecat's evolution--his evolving--is not Fritz's birth, and it is not Fritz's death. Got it. So, then, what is Fritz's evolving, since it is neither his birth, nor his death? And, when does Fritz evolve? When does Fritz's evolution occur? When does he do his evolving? Before his birth? After his birth? After his death? When?

More idiotic semantic games. A new low even for you. A conversation with a friend:
Hi Jim, how are you?
Hi Bill. Oh, I just evolved a cold.
Sorry to hear. My dog evolved. We buried him under the tree in the backyard.


I hope you are very young, because then there si hope that you'll grow out of this nasty stupid phase
 

Gary K

New member
Banned
The theory of evolution explains a lot of things regarding how life evolved (surprisingly). What it doesn't explain is how life itself originated, as per your silly OP and ignorance of the actual theory itself.

Otherwise, your presumptions of what I consider to be scientific are...well...kinda funny in a bemusing fashion.

That is once again a very disingenuous argument. The evidence all around us also supports creationism, but you don't even begin to look at that side of the issue. You've made up your mind only your version of "science" can be correct. Well, your version of "science" will never, and can never, explore the supernatural. It won't even admit the supernatural exists in that it denies any evidence of supernatural events. Yet even the steady state scientists are being forced to admit that steady state, long eons of time, are often the worst explanation of things and that what to them has appeared to take eons to form has been formed in front of their eyes in less than 40 years. In fact they have been forced to admit what they thought had to take millions of years to happen has happened in several instances in just a matter of months.

The evidence against evolution is massive, yet you refuse to even look at it. And you call that "scientific".

Edit: Your arguments remind me of what I saw someone argue 15 years or so on the internet. I pointed out evidence for creation and against the assertions he was making against the Bible. His answer? Oh, that isn't evidence at all. Since creation didn't happen, and the Bible isn't true that isn't evidence. It's truly a classic example of circular reasoning, and you do a lot of it yourself.
 

Right Divider

Body part
No, you haven't. You've asserted a whole load of stuff but you haven't actually gotten around to debunking anything. If this is your idea of "destroying" scientific methods or that which you don't agree with in terms of "method" then colour me unimpressed.
Radiometric dating is based on MULTIPLE ASSUMPTIONS. What don't you understand?

ASSUMPTIONS do not produce scientific results.
 

mtwilcox

New member
Except for the fact that modern medicine would not work as it does if evolution was simply a belief rather than fact.

What?
What form of modern medicine would not exist or “work” without the theory evolution???
Please explain further what you mean by this statement, because you are Wrong.

What observable objective science uses evolution?
Evolution is a theory that causes errors in thinking, and assumptions about observable science which leads to erroneous conclusions about the natural world.

It does not “make modern medicine work”, and it has not helped further scientific discoveries in any way; if you think it has, prove it.

=M=
 

mtwilcox

New member
Honestly, I'd suggest reading up on the actual theory as it hasn't been "disproved" and you have real misconceptions regarding it.

I understand the theory fine; that’s how I know it’s not based on reality.

Maybe this time you will address a couple of my questions.

So, once again I ask you:

It would help if you quote me so I can tell somebody has responded. Sure, why not?

Either evolution is true, or species of animals were originally created as they are today.

I asked you to provide evidence that New species have arisen out of other species, and you have not.

I gave you evidence that fossils of species of animals have been found which still are observable in nature today; which is evidence of God creating them originally in the forms we now see them today.

This same evidence disproves the theory of evolution.
Darwin suggested that animals are constantly in a state of change; if there are fossils of animals that are still living modernly, that is evidence against evolution.

How do you explain the fact there are fossilized animals which people who entertain the theory of evolution believe are tens and hundreds of millions of years old; are still living modernly?

I mean, if evolution is constantly changing species into new ones, how are there fossils of animals remainining anatomically unchanged today?

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People who believe in fossil dating have fossils of this fish which they believe are over 400 million years old!!!

If this fish has remained anatomically unchanged for that long; how can you believe man came out of a chimp like being in 3.5 million years?!?

Also, if this fish has not changed in 400 million years, when wasn’t it a ceolocanth?

In your opinion, does Evolution happen Fast, or Slow?
Judging by this creature, I’d say it does not happen at all...

There are many more examples that show Evolution does not occur.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/14-fun-facts-about-dragonflies-96882693/

From Wikipedia:

“Meganeura is a genus of extinct insects from the Carboniferous period (approximately 300 million years ago), which resembled and are related to the present-day dragonflies.”

Meganeura_monyi_au_Museum_de_Toulouse.jpg


This fossil is obviously a dragonfly, and it contains all the same functional anatomy that modern dragonflies contain today!!!

This fossil disproves the theory of evolution.

If dragonflies looked exactly the same 300 million years ago; when weren’t they dragonflies?
I mean, if they remained anatomically unchanged for 300 million years, evolution does not happen. This is the only logical explanation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meganeura

There are also:

Jellyfish

https://www.livescience.com/1971-oldest-jellyfish-fossils.html

Starfish

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42776719

Bats

https://ucmp.berkeley.edu/mammal/eutheria/chirofr.html

So, explain to me Arthur: why do you believe in Evolution?

I mean, it seems like these animals have remained the same species the entire time they’ve existed on earth...
The fossil evidence supports creation, not evolution.
 
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mtwilcox

New member
If evolution were truth, shouldn't all findings in the fossil record be proofs for evolution?

Why would evolutionists go as far as to falsify findings to try to prove their theory?


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7djengo7

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More idiotic semantic games. A new low even for you. A conversation with a friend:
Hi Jim, how are you?
Hi Bill. Oh, I just evolved a cold.
Sorry to hear. My dog evolved. We buried him under the tree in the backyard.



I hope you are very young, because then there si hope that you'll grow out of this nasty stupid phase

I got your goat merely by asking you to tell me what (if anything) it is for a housecat named Fritz to evolve. It embarrasses you, because, as you and I both know, you can't answer the question; you're incompetent to explain what (if anything) it is for a particular housecat (or Tom the tortoise, or Eliza the elephant, etc.) to evolve, and so, again, you act all snotty at me. I'm just the messenger, so why rail against me? You cherish absurdity and nonsense; I merely help you to see that what you cherish is absurdity and nonsense, and you gnash your teeth in anger at me for doing so, because you cherish your absurdity and nonsense.


  • Does Fritz the housecat evolve? Yes or No?
    [*]If so, when does Fritz the housecat evolve?
    [*]What, exactly, is Fritz the housecat's evolving? Describe Fritz's evolving.
    [*]Into what (if anything) does Fritz the housecat evolve?



You are livid--not so much because you cannot answer questions such as these as because they are asked of you in the first place, and you, put on the spot by them, demonstrate your inability to answer them by failing to answer them. How ridiculous for someone, like you, who loves to parrot the phrase, "the theory of evolution", to not even be able to answer such a fundamental question as to what it is for one, plain, old housecat, or Shamu the killer whale, to EVOLVE. Do you think that it is somehow not a basic, fundamental, essential requisite, for something called "the theory of evolution" to be able to say what it is for your pet dog to evolve?

It's interesting how much of an obsession you have for saying the word, "semantic". The game I'm playing, if you feel like calling it a game, is merely one of asking you to try to say what (if anything) you imagine you mean by the slogans you--because of deleterious mental conditioning--are in the habit, as a Darwin cheerleader, of parroting meaninglessly. Does not 'semantic' mean having to do with the meanings of words and phrases? Why you don't like me talking semantically to you is because you mean absolutely nothing by your fairy-tale Darwinism jargon, and, by talking semantically to you--by asking you about your fairy-tale Darwinism jargon, you are forced to expose--by your inability to answer my questions--your own incompetence to explain your jargon, and the vacuousness of it. I understand why you're angry; you're not justifiably angry, but I understand why you are angry.

Why saying that an opponent is semantical is so commonly considered to be pejorative, and is done with an intent to be pejorative toward that opponent, is an absolute mystery to me. One of the prominent features of your (and Arthur Brain's, and others') immense foolishness, as Darwin cheerleaders, is your manifest disregard for the question of whether or not you even mean anything by the things you say. One of your problems, as Darwin cheerleaders, is that not only are you not semantical about the slogans you chant, but you are downright anti-semantical....which is exactly why you keep on chanting the meaningless slogans you chant. You, Arthur Brain, and every other Darwin cheerleader, mean no more by words like "evolve", and "evolution", than a football stadium cheerleader would mean, were she waving pom-poms and shouting, "Give me an E, give me a V, give me an O, give me an L, give me a U, give me a T, give me an I, give me an O, give me an N, give me an exclamation point!!!" The difference is that she--the football cheerleader--wouldn't be so arrogantly stupid as to go about pretending like she really does mean something by it, as you, Arthur Brain, and every other Darwin cheerleader, pretend to do.
 

mtwilcox

New member
Djengo!
Speaking of evols using the “Semantics argument”; in this video Dick Dawkins does just that!

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John Lennox vs Richard Dawkins:


I don’t know if you’ve watched this debate yet, but it’s a great video; that I’m sure you will enjoy!

It’s pretty long, but very entertaining; at least it was for me... please watch it when you find the time.
 

mtwilcox

New member
Also, djengo!

Not to keep posting videos on your excellent thread, but, well...
Here:

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How to know when you have won an argument:

 

Lon

Well-known member
A creationist website is hardly proof of anything Lon.
Its a fallacy to think so. Rather, you must and have to read. "Proof" is that they both rightly call into question "past mistakes" in dating.
There is a LOT of piggy-backing in age-estimating. Enough 1) that there have been mistakes and 2) enough that you can question accuracy whether you are a creationist website or any (other) science discipline. As I said, its a good thing. Once you get into 'defending' science speculation as happens often on TOL, you are no longer really championing science, but 'ideas' from science, whether they are right or wrong, and that's not the goal. These threads stimulate such, but science is much more about questioning veracity than "digging-in."

If there's flaws in the methods used to establish the age of the universe then there needs to be something that holds up to scrutiny.
There is. Good science is to either question and give better models than what is present, or to discover something that happens to change the preconceptions of a community. If anything, this is the good thing held by science, whether by creationists or any other.
 
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