Islam burns a man alive and broadcasts it

[IMJerusha]

Mmm.....bacon!!! :chew:

 

[Jose Fly]

Old Testament instruction under the Old Covenant is no longer in force.

Yeah I know...fundamentalists believe in a moral relativist god that changes its mind.

 

[IMJerusha]

Yeah I know...fundamentalists believe in a moral relativist god that changes its mind.

You're confused. God doesn't change. He provided a better Way for us to be in relationship with Him out of His Grace and Mercy which He, being God, has a right to do. We didn't deserve Yeshua at all and that's not just a fundamentalist belief. It's simply the Truth. I suppose one could put a label of moral relativist on God but that wouldn't be very wise. God is God, the Creator of all things who loves us and wants us but has absolutely no need of us.

 

[Jose Fly]

You're confused. God doesn't change.

The entire basis for Christianity is a god changing its mind and changing the rules. Otherwise you'd all still be sacrificing livestock to your god.

 

[IMJerusha]

The entire basis for Christianity is a god changing its mind and changing the rules. Otherwise you'd all still be sacrificing livestock to your god.

I'm sorry, you're mistaken. The entire basis for Christianity is God loving and wanting us enough to give His precious Son to stand as the New Covenant by His blood.
Fulfillment is not the same as change and in Yeshua the Law of the Old Covenant still exists.

 

[Jose Fly]

We can quibble over what "the entire basis is", but the fact remains, a central tenet of Christianity is that sinners no longer need to sacrifice goats to a god and believers don't have to abide by Jewish law.

Thus it's patently obvious that the god of Christianity changes its mind and is a moral relativist.

 

[IMJerusha]

We can quibble over what "the entire basis is", but the fact remains, a central tenet of Christianity is that sinners no longer need to sacrifice goats to a god and believers don't have to abide by Jewish law.

Thus it's patently obvious that the god of Christianity changes its mind and is a moral relativist.

It isn't Jewish law. It's God's Law and it's still there because it's God's Will and God hasn't changed His mind in terms of what constitutes sin in His presence. God didn't break the first Covenant, His people did so why do you want to bust His chops for loving and wanting His people enough to provide another One?

 

[Jose Fly]

It isn't Jewish law. It's God's Law and it's still there because it's God's Will and God hasn't changed His mind in terms of what constitutes sin in His presence.

So why aren't Christians out stoning gays and smart-mouthed kids, and sacrificing goats to the gods?

God didn't break the first Covenant, His people did so why do you want to bust His chops for loving and wanting His people enough to provide another One?

So apparently the first one wasn't good enough, eh?

 

[IMJerusha]

So why aren't Christians out stoning gays and smart-mouthed kids, and sacrificing goats to the gods?

I just explained that we have a New Covenant in and through Yeshua. You've been around here long enough to have already been told all of this. You choose to reject it. That's fine but don't make out like you're not in the know.

So apparently the first one wasn't good enough, eh?

Are you really this obtuse? I just explained that it was God's people who broke the Covenant. Do you not understand what a Covenant is?

 

[bybee]

Yeah I know...fundamentalists believe in a moral relativist god that changes its mind.

Not at all. The human mind is an ever evolving and widening entity else no learning could take place? It is we who change in our ability to apprehend the attributes of God. With apprehension comes definition and application.

 

[Jose Fly]

I just explained that we have a New Covenant in and through Yeshua.

Right...the old one wasn't good enough.

I just explained that it was God's people who broke the Covenant. Do you not understand what a Covenant is?

So rather than reinstate the original one, this god came up with a whole new one. What was the matter? Didn't this god have a choice?

Seems obvious that the old one wasn't good enough (if it was, it would still be in place) and this god changed its mind (and the rules).

 

[Jose Fly]

Not at all. The human mind is an ever evolving and widening entity else no learning could take place? It is we who change in our ability to apprehend the attributes of God. With apprehension comes definition and application.

Um no...the Bible is pretty clear. At one point in history you atoned for your sins by sacrificing livestock to a god. The OT gives extremely specific instructions on how to go about it.

But then this god changes its mind and the rules, and now you atone for your sins through a completely different way, and you don't have to abide by the OT laws any more.

It's pretty silly to deny that.

 

[IMJerusha]

Right...the old one wasn't good enough.

It has nothing to do with the old Covenant not being good enough. It has to do with God's people choosing disobedience over obedience.

So rather than reinstate the original one, this god came up with a whole new one. What was the matter?

I can only imagine He found us rather taxing and He did promise not to destroy us all again.

Didn't this god have a choice?

We're still here aren't we? :chuckle:

Seems obvious that the old one wasn't good enough (if it was, it would still be in place) and this god changed its mind (and the rules).

No, it's we who weren't good enough and the funny thing is we still aren't except through Yeshua's blood.

I see it's your life's aim to discredit what you don't believe in. Isn't that a bit of a chase after your own tail?

 

[Jose Fly]

It has nothing to do with the old Covenant not being good enough. It has to do with God's people choosing disobedience over obedience.

That doesn't make sense. If the old one was good enough, this god surely would have kept it. I mean, surely a perfect god would develop a perfect set of rules, correct?

I can only imagine He found us rather taxing and He did promise not to destroy us all again.

Exactly...you can only imagine.

No, it's we who weren't good enough and the funny thing is we still aren't except through Yeshua's blood.

So of the parts in the equation, one wasn't working (humans) and another one was (the covenant), so to fix the situation this god changed the working part and kept the non-working part the same?

Not only that, but the working part (the covenant) was the rule system for the entire construct, yet this god decided to dramatically change it? What had happened that caused this god to suddenly say "From now on, the old rules don't apply and here are an entirely new set of rules"?

I see it's your life's aim to discredit what you don't believe in. Isn't that a bit of a chase after your own tail?

My life's aim? Funny. :chuckle:

 

[bybee]

Um no...the Bible is pretty clear. At one point in history you atoned for your sins by sacrificing livestock to a god. The OT gives extremely specific instructions on how to go about it.

But then this god changes its mind and the rules, and now you atone for your sins through a completely different way, and you don't have to abide by the OT laws any more.

It's pretty silly to deny that.

Does it occur to you as possible that God was speaking to an un-evolved people? That as the people came to an understanding of how God expected them to behave as individuals but even more importantly as a "People in community" they evolved in understanding of God and themselves?
Karen Armstrong has written an interesting book "The History of God". It is good food for thought.

 

[IMJerusha]

That doesn't make sense. If the old one was good enough, this god surely would have kept it. I mean, surely a perfect god would develop a perfect set of rules, correct?

He did keep it. His people didn't. And His rules are perfect.

Exactly...you can only imagine.

Are you expecting me to claim to know God's heart. Sorry, no can do.

So of the parts in the equation, one wasn't working (humans) and another one was (the covenant), so to fix the situation this god changed the working part and kept the non-working part the same?

No, you've got the parts wrong. His people = one part. He = other part. Non-working part = His people. Working part = His Law. Working part (His Law) is still in existence to show us His Will (what is sin) with fulfillment of certain aspects of it in Yeshua (the New Covenant/once for all sin sacrifice).

Not only that, but the working part (the covenant) was the rule system for the entire construct, yet this god decided to dramatically change it? What had happened that caused this god to suddenly say "From now on, the old rules don't apply and here are an entirely new set of rules"?

What new set of rules? The old still apply.

My life's aim? Funny. :chuckle:

Then why are you here, tail chaser? You can't stop people from believing. It must be your life's aim but what a waste of a life. lain:

 

[Jose Fly]

Does it occur to you as possible that God was speaking to an un-evolved people?

You mean the same "un-evolved" (your term) people who wrote the Bible? Yeah, that's certainly occurred to me.

That as the people came to an understanding of how God expected them to behave as individuals but even more importantly as a "People in community" they evolved in understanding of God and themselves?

So the Bible isn't a depiction of a god changing the rules, but of people getting the rules wrong at first, but then later getting them right?

 

[Jose Fly]

He did keep it. His people didn't. And His rules are perfect.

Um....no. This god obviously didn't keep the same set of rules, otherwise you'd still be sacrificing livestock. And which set of rules are perfect...the OT rules where we're told to stone gays and smart mouthed kids to death, or the "new covenant" where we don't do those things?

Are you expecting me to claim to know God's heart. Sorry, no can do.

So how do you know this god didn't change its mind?

No, you've got the parts wrong. His people = one part. He = other part.

Certainly the rules this god lays down are part of this whole thing, correct? Or are the rules not really that important?

Non-working part = His people. Working part = His Law. Working part (His Law) is still in existence to show us His Will (what is sin) with fulfillment of certain aspects of it in Yeshua (the New Covenant/once for all sin sacrifice).

So why aren't you stoning gays and smart mouthed kids?

What new set of rules? The old still apply.

So why aren't you stoning gays and smart mouthed kids?

Then why are you here, tail chaser?

Entertainment. Why are you here?

 

[IMJerusha]

Um....no. This god obviously didn't keep the same set of rules, otherwise you'd still be sacrificing livestock. And which set of rules are perfect...the OT rules where we're told to stone gays and smart mouthed kids to death, or the "new covenant" where we don't do those things?

You don't understand the fulfillment of the sin sacrifice.

So how do you know this god didn't change its mind?

Because I believe Him.

Certainly the rules this god lays down are part of this whole thing, correct? Or are the rules not really that important?

I have already explained their importance. Why are you being obtuse again?

So why aren't you stoning gays and smart mouthed kids?

"One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, 'Of all the commandments, which is the most important?' 'The most important one,' answered Jesus, 'is this:
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." The second is this: "Love your neighbor as yourself." There is no commandment greater than these.' 'Well said, teacher,' the man replied. 'You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.' When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, 'You are not far from the kingdom of God.' "

Sort of self explanatory, don't you think? It is the aim of every Christian to be a part of the kingdom of God.

So why aren't you stoning gays and smart mouthed kids?

"Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 'Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?'
Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: "Love your neighbor as yourself." All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.' "

Sort of self explanatory, don't you think?

Entertainment.

I don't think so. I think you want someone to convince you of what you already know but don't want to acknowledge because you're wounded and angry or you've decided to serve HaSatan. Simple as that.

Why are you here?

To share and to witness.

 

[Jose Fly]

You don't understand the fulfillment of the sin sacrifice.

Then please explain.

Because I believe Him.

Conveniently circular.

I have already explained their importance.

Then despite your earlier attempt to reduce it down to just a god and humans, we both agree that the rules laid down by this god are indeed important.

"One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, 'Of all the commandments, which is the most important?' 'The most important one,' answered Jesus, 'is this:
"Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength." The second is this: "Love your neighbor as yourself." There is no commandment greater than these.' 'Well said, teacher,' the man replied. 'You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.' When Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him, 'You are not far from the kingdom of God.' "

Sort of self explanatory, don't you think? It is the aim of every Christian to be a part of the kingdom of God.

Unless you're saying that the OT laws about stoning gays and smart mouthed kids were never important in the first place, you pretty much dodged the question.

"Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 'Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?'
Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: "Love your neighbor as yourself." All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.' "

Sort of self explanatory, don't you think?

Yeah, you're dodging. I didn't ask which of the rules are more important than others, I asked why you aren't following some of them if they "still apply" as you stated.