Islam burns a man alive and broadcasts it

Derf

Well-known member
In case your head is in the sand.

He was a Jordanian pilot. The set a liquid fuse and burned him up until there was only ashes.

Click here for the youtube list.

Which part of this is the most horrifying to you? That
  1. they burned him
  2. he was alive
  3. he was in a cage when they did it
  4. he was jordanian
  5. they dumped a bunch of rocks on him
  6. it was Moslems that did it

Here's why I ask:
  1. Lev 20:14. And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
  2. The passage above doesn't specify whther they should be alive or dead when they are burnt, but seems to indicate they are alive
  3. You can't really burn someone unless they are restrained from running away
  4. Even (or especially) an Israelite (of the same nation as the lawgiver) was susceptible to such punishment
  5. Jos 7:25. And Joshua said, Why hast thou troubled us? the LORD shall trouble thee this day. And all Israel stoned him [Achan, as well as his family] with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. --seems to be approximately what ISIS did.

So, what is the offense, if the bible also commands such? Perhaps you could make a case that the man was innocent of anything deserving of such treatment, but from their point of view, he had committed murder, killing or attempting to kill some of their own.

Just thought I'd ask...
 
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Derf

Well-known member
That muslims executed an INNOCENT man by burning him alive.
Ok, thanks for the response. So it sounds like it would be ok with you if either
  1. He wasn't innocent, or
  2. they chopped him up into pieces instead
Now, he was an enemy combatant, whose jet was shot down over ISIS territory. Can this be compared to Samuel's chopping up the body of King Agag? 1Sam 15:32-33
 
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bybee

New member
Ok, thanks for the response. So it sounds like it would be ok with you if either
  1. He wasn't innocent, or
  2. they chopped him up into pieces instead
Now, he was an enemy combatant, whose jet was shot down over ISIS territory. Can this be compared to Samuel's chopping up the body of King Agag? 1Sam 15:32-33

No
 

brewmama

New member
Do you think that all Muslims practice Sharia? I can assure you that isn't true

Ok. We'll just say the majority of them want it. So that doesn't really make a difference in the grand scheme, does it? And the sharia group will most likely just kill the ones that disagree with them, 'cause that's what they do.
 

Derf

Well-known member
We noticed, thanks. :) I said it is a problem because they executed an innocent man.

Hi Nick,
If it helps you to misquote me, fine, but I'm still trying to find out what has spurred you and others to such indignation about doing something the bible commands, at least in one instance.

I can understand your frustration. We Christians don't really have good answers for these questions. But we should try to figure out what the right answers are.

I think you are on to something--to do this to the innocent is horrifying, but our culture tends to be horrified killing anyone in any way (including lethal injection). Should we be? Perhaps. But we should be more horrified when sin is left unpunished and evil is allowed to grow unchecked.

The problem is that we don't have a clear distinction between evil and good! How do we fix that? Is it evil to burn a man alive? Is it evil to stone a man to death? Does it matter if he's innocent or guilty? Does it matter what he's guilty of?

Muslims, and especially ISIS, make the claim that they are following the will of God--just as we say we are. How do we refute those claims? Why is our god any better than theirs? Can we answer that question? Can YOU answer that question?

Appreciate the dialog, though I don't appreciate the misquoting.
Derf
 

bybee

New member
Hi Nick,
If it helps you to misquote me, fine, but I'm still trying to find out what has spurred you and others to such indignation about doing something the bible commands, at least in one instance.

I can understand your frustration. We Christians don't really have good answers for these questions. But we should try to figure out what the right answers are.

I think you are on to something--to do this to the innocent is horrifying, but our culture tends to be horrified killing anyone in any way (including lethal injection). Should we be? Perhaps. But we should be more horrified when sin is left unpunished and evil is allowed to grow unchecked.

The problem is that we don't have a clear distinction between evil and good! How do we fix that? Is it evil to burn a man alive? Is it evil to stone a man to death? Does it matter if he's innocent or guilty? Does it matter what he's guilty of?

Muslims, and especially ISIS, make the claim that they are following the will of God--just as we say we are. How do we refute those claims? Why is our god any better than theirs? Can we answer that question? Can YOU answer that question?

Appreciate the dialog, though I don't appreciate the misquoting.
Derf

A Christian is following the will God as revealed in and through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
A Muslim is following the will of Allah as revealed through the words of Muhammad in the Qur'an. If you have read the Qur'an you will see the difference.
Of course Nick can answer that question! And so can I!
If you cannot answer that question then your claim to be a Christian is suspect to me!
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Temp Banned
Hi Nick,
I'm still trying to find out what has spurred you and others to such indignation about doing something the bible commands, at least in one instance.

The Bible never says to execute an innocent man. Are you stupid like I said, or just being subtil?
 

Derf

Well-known member
The Bible never says to execute an innocent man. Are you stupid like I said, or just being subtil?
I prefer subtle, if I get a choice.

The Bible never says to execute an innocent man, but it says the Israelites stoned and burned not only Achan, but also his children, at God's insistence. Surely his children were innocent, weren't they?

Since the means of death is no longer an issue, we can consider other cases, for instance: At God's insistence,, and under Saul's leadership the Israelites killed man, woman and child of the Amalekites (Saul being guilty of not ensuring total destruction by preserving King Agag)--surely you don't think of the children as being guilty in that case?

So, if the children of Achan and the Amalekites were not guilty, yet were under the same condemnation as their parents or leaders, can we truthfully conclude that there's a problem with ISIS in executing the Jordanian pilot?

Perhaps, as Bybee suggested (thanks for your response Bybee):
A Christian is following the will God as revealed in and through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
A Muslim is following the will of Allah as revealed through the words of Muhammad in the Qur'an. If you have read the Qur'an you will see the difference.
Of course Nick can answer that question! And so can I!
If you cannot answer that question then your claim to be a Christian is suspect to me!

We can just quote the bible and say that settles it--everybody else has to fall in line. But aren't we doing the same thing they are, in the eyes of the rest of the world? It's just one holy book against another. Early in the thread others claimed Christians are killing children as witches, and they didn't see a difference. I'm not sure I do either.

Just to set the record straight, I don't think ISIS should be lighting Jordanian pilots on fire anymore than they should be cutting off the heads of journalists or Christians or other muslims. I struggle with the commands given to Israel as they entered their promised land, just as I struggle with images of the King of Kings' blood-stained garments, as in Rev 19:13 and Is 63:3, but fortunately these both refer to Him being the only one that is blood-stained.

Maybe the problem isn't one of innocence or guilt, but of loyalty to our King. What now do we do with this information about ISIS killing innocent people? What do you suggest?
 

Derf

Well-known member
The same as your father the devil? :think:

Wise as serpents, harmless as doves.

Then what are you trying to debate?

I'm not trying to debate anything, necessarily, I'm trying to find out why you thought that one particular act (burning the pilot) was so reprehensible, compared, perhaps, to other atrocities. Do you have good reason? So far, I haven't seen it. ISIS was apparently able to do what they wanted to do--cause a great reaction--without much reason in response.

I think Bybee hit it on the nail--the difference is that God commanded versus Allah. But I'm not sure how we put that into action today. If all we do is thump our holy book harder, and they thump theirs harder, we don't make much progress. On this point I'm looking for conversation/discussion. Unfortunately, these forums are more geared toward just insulting those who question our opinions. More's the pity.

I'll leave you alone now.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Temp Banned
I'm not trying to debate anything, necessarily, I'm trying to find out why you thought that one particular act (burning the pilot) was so reprehensible

They executed an innocent man in a way that clearly is acceptable to you. You keep dancing away from the execution of an innocent man. You are subtil and of your father the devil.
 

Derf

Well-known member
You are...of your father the devil.

Don't forget to look at the context before quoting scripture.

Jesus' complaint just prior to His accusation was: "Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word." Which you seem especially adept at.

Is there a good way to execute an innocent man? You seem to think so, as you focused on this episode for your OP. The whole of ISIS's campaign has been one of executing innocent people. My question was and is, "Why does this one get your goat more than the others?"

If you haven't thought about it, do so now. If you don't want to think, that's up to you, but why start a conversation you don't want to have? Is it just to find more people to call names? Seems like you don't need to start your own post to do that.

If you don't have anything more to say, saying it with epithets is hardly more convincing. And assigning people to hell isn't really your job, as much as you seem to like to do it.

Blessings,
Derf
 

OCTOBER23

New member
THERE IS AN SOLUTION TO THE EVIL IN THIS WORLD.........

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying,

Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them

of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed,

and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
 

jgarden

BANNED
Banned
Islam burns a man alive and broadcasts it

1. ISIS is thought to number less than 40 000 fighters which can hardly be considered representative of a religion that numbers more than 1.5 billion.

2. Women were condemned by the Christian Church and burnt as witches in Europe and America. The KKK tortured and lynched 100's of "Black" victims, using the Bible as the justification to judge them as being racially inferior.

3. The majority of participants in both WW1 and WW2 attempting to annihilate each other were considered to be "Christian" nations. Each side prayed to God to provide them with a decisive victory. One of the main protagonists, Adolf Hitler, stated that like the KKK he was doing God's work.

"I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."
- Adolf Hitler

4. Given the history of the last decade alone, far more Moslems have died as the result of the actions taken by "Christian" nations than the few well-publicized incidents of Moslems killing Christians.
 

Crucible

BANNED
Banned
During WWII, many saw Hitler as the Antichrist. Islam was largely ignored here.
But when Islam rears it's mystery Babylon ways, anti-Christs try to make Hitler out to be the spokesperson for Christianity.

Funny how that works.

As it stands, religion only accounts for 10% of the world's violence. By the atheist's own logic, their worldview is the deadliest.
Saying religion was for 'control' is just biased and derogatory. Religion was for 'order' and 'reason'. This is one of the atheist's many intellectual sins.

However, many Rightists have theirs as well- like ignoring the fact that Christianity is just ahead of Islam. The death penalty for apostasy is something that existed in Christian society, for example, a lot longer than this recent condemnation of it within Islamic countries. This is why Muslims call the West hypocrites, they see the 1st World as a sort of mystery Babylon.
Think about it.
 
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