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toldailytopic: Eternal torment, Annihilationism or Universalism, which do you believe

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  • #46
    Doormat = elo?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
      For what? Creating beings made of fallible flesh and blood, and a speck of existence in which to find the one way out of a maze which doesn't result in being roasted or some other unspeakable eternal form of suffering?

      The mind boggles at the cruelty of such a doctrine...
      "Other" Sigh.

      AMR
      Embedded links in my posts or in my sig below are included for a reason. Tolle Lege.



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      • #48
        Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
        Leave it to you not to quote the passages.
        2 Peter 3:1-12

        1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

        1 Thessalonians 5:1-4

        1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

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        • #49
          God’s mercy is equally perfect with His justice.

          Let me ask a question; is the Rapture preceded by the day of Judgement?
          So, what?

          believe it!

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
            "Other" Sigh.

            AMR
            Since when does a label matter when discussing such a topic? Were the founding fathers of the earliest church 'protestants'?

            I could care less what Johnathan Edwards had to say. I've seen it before several times already along with other of his 'sermons'. He displays about as much love, compassion and understanding for his fellow man as a lion about to devour a Thompson's gazelle...

            You can't reduce a concept of unbearable eternal suffering through a lens of intellectualism AMR, though try as you will.

            Well this is fun isn't it?

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
              Eternal punishment is the only thing that satisfies God's retributive justice (the expression of the divine wrath).
              Is this stated somewhere in the Christian Bible?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Dena View Post
                Is this stated somewhere in the Christian Bible?
                Yes. Not in those words, however, AMR is going for the meaning directly.
                So, what?

                believe it!

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Lighthouse View Post
                  You don't know him like I do. I've been dealing with him near a decade now.
                  Then your love for him should be greater than mine, shouldn't it?
                  Last edited by IMJerusha; April 2nd, 2013, 10:37 PM.
                  I AM the pie lady!!

                  sigpic

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by bybee View Post
                    I tend to believe in eventual annihilationism as being in keeping with God's revelation of Himself in Scripture.
                    This.
                    All I need is an actual reading of John 3:16, with no additional doctrinal trappings.

                    "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

                    If those who believe in Christ will have ETERNAL LIFE, then it follows those who don't will NOT.
                    Otherwise why state it so?
                    If they DON'T have eternal life, how can they be tormented eternally?

                    End of argument, for me at least.
                    “In many ways the evidence of our faith is found in our ability to control our tongue (or our keyboard)."
                    -Adam Hamilton

                    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
                    -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Ktoyou View Post
                      Yes. Not in those words, however, AMR is going for the meaning directly.
                      Then why didn't the original founding fathers/church/translators believe in it for the most part? Eternal torment/separation/suffering wasn't 'orthodox' by any means....
                      Well this is fun isn't it?

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Buzzword View Post
                        This.
                        All I need is an actual reading of John 3:16, with no additional doctrinal trappings.

                        "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

                        If those who believe in Christ will have ETERNAL LIFE, then it follows those who don't will NOT.
                        Otherwise why state it so?
                        If they DON'T have eternal life, how can they be tormented eternally?

                        End of argument, for me at least.
                        Just out of interest....

                        How would you read this verse then?

                        1 Tim 4:10
                        Well this is fun isn't it?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Arthur Brain View Post
                          Just out of interest....

                          How would you read this verse then?

                          1 Tim 4:10
                          Have to read the entire chapter, first.

                          1 Timothy 4

                          Metaphysically it can be understood that Christ's example and sacrifice was for all people, that its effect is available to all of us, and that we need only accept Him and believe in the power of His sacrifice to bring us into that effect: The relationship with Him, with each other, and with His created universe for which He designed us.

                          Without that act of acceptance, we can't experience that relationship because we haven't accepted the Person with whom we would share it.
                          “In many ways the evidence of our faith is found in our ability to control our tongue (or our keyboard)."
                          -Adam Hamilton

                          “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
                          -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Buzzword View Post
                            Have to read the entire chapter, first.

                            1 Timothy 4

                            Metaphysically it can be understood that Christ's example and sacrifice was for all people, that its effect is available to all of us, and that we need only accept Him and believe in the power of His sacrifice to bring us into that effect: The relationship with Him, with each other, and with His created universe for which He designed us.

                            Without that act of acceptance, we can't experience that relationship because we haven't accepted the Person with whom we would share it.
                            Um, isn't that just a round about the houses way of saying that Christ only died for those who believe in effect?

                            Do you take credit at all for believing?
                            Well this is fun isn't it?

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                            • #59
                              universalism, obviously
                              Keep the Spirit alive;
                              Eric the Green

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Buzzword View Post
                                This.
                                All I need is an actual reading of John 3:16, with no additional doctrinal trappings.

                                "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

                                If those who believe in Christ will have ETERNAL LIFE, then it follows those who don't will NOT.
                                Otherwise why state it so?
                                If they DON'T have eternal life, how can they be tormented eternally?

                                End of argument, for me at least.
                                No, it just means that one way to have eternal life is to believe that Jesus showed that it happens.

                                Jesus did not come to torment people eternally. That contradicts his doctrine of forgiveness. So you say he asked people to forgive people seventy time seven times, but he doesn't?
                                Keep the Spirit alive;
                                Eric the Green

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